Interview with Brett Kissel (Brett Returns!)

What's going on?! It is Adam. Welcome back to bringing it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Brett Kissel over zoom video. This is actually the second time Brett has been on the podcast. The first time my brother-in-law Shawn OBEs of the Eiffel's had a chance to chat with Brett. So it was awesome. Being able to kind of catch up with Brad. I had never met him before. So knowing a little bit about his story, we got to dig in pretty deep. He told us some stories he's never told before, which is really kind of cool. We hear about him writing a letter to Johnny Cash and getting her apply how his musical journey started at six years old, some major successes through his career and all about the most recent song he put out with 98 degrees. 4 (1m 47s): It's called ain't the same. You could watch our very in-depth interview with Brett Kissel on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it backwards. It would be so awesome if you subscribed to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and TOK at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify or apple music, Google podcasts, it would be absolutely incredible if you follow us there as well, and hook us up with a five star review, 5 (2m 14s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 4 (2m 20s): We're bringing it backwards with Brett Kissel. I appreciate you being here. I'm actually, my brother-in-law interviewed you before for this podcast. 6 (2m 28s): Yeah. And yeah, bring it backwards. Like, yeah, I, I do, I, I remember the conversation when my record came out, it was a really special one-on-one talking about, you know, obviously all these songs, but I think that it was supposed to be scared of for like 20 minutes and he, and I just kept talking and it was such a great visit. It was, it was, it was a good one. So I'm just grateful that we get to pick up where he left off, I guess. 4 (2m 52s): Yeah. I mean, and I would love to hear a little bit about your story just because I didn't, I didn't hear it the first time. I mean, I watched the interview, but I would love to kind of elaborate a little bit on that if that's cool. 6 (3m 3s): Absolutely. I mean, where, what do you want to know? Because it's a, I could kind of give you the reader's digest quick Coles notes version of it, or I could really, you know, take you on a, on a pretty cool journey of about how this all started for me. 4 (3m 16s): I love to jump on that journey if you have time. 6 (3m 19s): Absolutely. I mean, I, I related a lot to sports, to be honest, where, you know, there's a kid, you know, you put a hockey stick in a kid's hand and, and, you know, he just keeps playing, playing. And before, you know, it, he goes from novice to, to Adam and then to Peewee. And then before, you know, it he's playing junior and then he gets drafted to the NHL. And before, you know, it, he's playing on, on a major league team and wins in the Stanley cup. And, and you asked that kid, how did, how did this all get started? And like, well, I don't really know. This is just all I've ever done. And for me, I got a guitar when I was six from my name off and she got it from the Sears catalog and she just said, she saw the music in me and all I ever wanted to do is just sing. 6 (3m 59s): So now I have an instrument that I can accompany myself with and I never took a formal lesson. I just would sit on the island or the counter right by, by the radio. And I would, I had three minutes to learn a song because wow, you know, it sold at the granny county auction was going to be done, you know, and I better learn that guitar chords and figure it out, but he's planning in the Kia playing the kid a so that's just an open <inaudible>. So just trying to learn that, and then you learn more songs and you realize that it's kind of a formula. If you learn an eight chord and a D chord in an eCourt, you can play every song. And then you hear you mute your Palm. 6 (4m 39s): You know, you can play Johnny Cash music, like, you know, kind of thing. This is out of tune, but okay. Oh my God. Now I can play by the way. Yeah. Thank you. It's a, we were giving it away to all the liquor stores that ordered our company, deuce vodka. Oh 4 (4m 54s): Yeah. 6 (4m 55s): Yeah. My, my, my, my company's doing really well and really proud of it. So, and then, then he started playing shows and you play, I don't know, Bob's for dealers, you know, hamburger, customer appreciation. I play a half hour set and the G the GM dealers, then he said, well, why don't you come play my Christmas party? And then this guy who was there and says, Hey, I'm the entertainment Booker for the local rodeo? Why don't you, why don't you play a set? And before, you know what, I'm 12 years old and I'm getting paid $500 or a thousand dollars. And, and I'm hiring Dan members and now I'm 16 years old and now getting paid $5,000 and I get to travel to Vancouver or Calgary or, or Toronto. 6 (5m 39s): And before, you know, and I'm, I'm, I'm 20 years old and there's, you know, a record label, you know, kind of saying that you're, you're doing some pretty cool things. You should, you know, do some work together. And, you know, you start traveling to Nashville, you learn the art of writing songs. And I, this is all I've ever done. I mean, I don't know if I'm good, anything else in the world other than playing shows. And so I'm really grateful that now I'm 31 years old and I dunno, probably played maybe 2000 shows, maybe more. And I just love my life 4 (6m 11s): And accomplished so much in the, in the, in the music industry as well, with all the awards and accolades that you've gotten. Like, it's so cool to, to like, read about your story and like, now hear it from you. I'm curious. I mean, you grew up on what a cattle ranch, right. Is that what our saw 6 (6m 26s): I did? Yeah. And it's still in our family, my wife and I, a couple of years ago, we actually bought the ranch from my grandparents. 4 (6m 33s): Oh, 6 (6m 33s): You did. And we did. So it lasted another generation. So we bought some land with my aunt and my uncle, my auntie and my uncle. And it's awesome because it's such a beautiful property, a legacy property been in our family for 112 years this summer. So, so, so someone has to buy it. Someone has to keep it going, and I want to be that guy. 4 (6m 55s): And you guys are what hurting are you? You do like Angus and just see something else. I get a couple of different types of beef out of there. Is that what it is? Yeah. 6 (7m 2s): Yeah. For years we, I mean, back in the seventies and eighties, before I was a kid, we did seven tall cattle, which were a very popular breed and a beautiful breed of cattle. But as my dad started to take over the ranch, he was doing Angus. But now what we do is we have the land, but we just really rent, rent out all of our land to other, other ranchers that happened to be our family too. So I still own cattle with one of my cousins and we bring them in. We pastured them on our land, but with me being a country stinger, and also being a busy dad with four kids and my wife and I are chasing after our kids and my grandparents are aging. 6 (7m 42s): You know, we decided that it's probably not best for my grandpa, 83 years old, who needs, who needs a hip replacement to be pulling calves, calving out three, 300 calves, like it's 1965. So my, so we've slowed down in that regard, but still very, very busy and still a great life. 4 (8m 1s): That's so cool. Are you still, did I read that you're in Nashville? Are you in Nashville now or no, 6 (8m 6s): Physically right now? No, I am up in Alberta right now. We have a house. Yeah, just, just a little ways off the farm, but we split our time between Nashville, but of course, you know, with COVID, we, we didn't go back to America for, for two years. So we hunkered down up here to be close to the friends and family, but now we're really reintegrating into Nashville, you know, this year and into 2030 and are probably gonna relocate and move on, move our family back down again. 4 (8m 35s): Okay. I always wondering about that. Yeah. Cause the COVID restrictions were really kind of weird with w I mean, you're jumping across countries, right. It means with Canada and everything else I know early on, it was like you had a quarantine in like a hotel or something for like weeks on end, if you wanted to come over here back. 6 (8m 51s): Yeah, it was, it was pretty wild. And I mean, it's, I own a VOC company and there's still not enough, not enough for you and me to drink, to solve the problems 4 (8m 60s): That 6 (9m 1s): COVID caused and that the real road bumps speed bumps said that it put in, you know, the way of the music industry and, and yeah, the, those COVID hotels were just, so it's such a, such a wild thing. It's going to be very interesting for you and I, as, as young men, you know, to, to talk about this in a decade or talk about this three, four decades, cause you know, you and I are, you know, we might be on a golf course with a cigar hanging out of our mouth, know when we're in our seventies and we're going to be like, do you remember that time in the twenties? Remember 20, 20, all that shit we went through. Oh 4 (9m 36s): Yeah, I 6 (9m 36s): Believe it. You know, it's, it's, it's going to be one of those things. The same way that I remember my grandpa talked about, you know, and my great-grandfather who I did know, talked about the dirty thirties. Now I remember him talking about the dirty thirties 4 (9m 50s): In 1930. 6 (9m 51s): Exactly. And now we're going to be talking about that. The YL 2020s, 4 (9m 56s): That's so wild. It's crazy thing. And like I have young kids through our 1, 1, 6 year old and the other just turned 14 and it's thinking like they had to go through school, like at the beginning of school with this whole like virtual learning. And like, I mean, it's, it's wild to think like what their heads are going to be wrapped around when like, oh my gosh. Remember when I had to like stay inside for three months, I mean the two years or whatever it was and wear a mask and all this other stuff, it couldn't see my friends. Like just thinking about being that age, like it's nuts. 6 (10m 29s): Yeah. It certainly is. And I know that, that it has already affected the, you know, the, the, the mental health of, of our entire society in a bunch of ways. But I think it's important for you and I, as parents to do our very best to coach the kids, help them understand that a lot of this was out of our, out of our control and you know what, and now we have to make up for lost time. You remember all those times where we couldn't do all the things that we wanted to do well, now it's important to get back out there and join those sports teams and really cherish friendships. Sure. And cherish the time with cousins and family and grandparents and everybody that we have in our circle. So I think there's an even heavier responsibility on you and I, as dads too, to support our significant others, to support our, our peer groups. 6 (11m 14s): And of course our kids, 4 (11m 16s): Right. I love that. No, you're totally right on exactly. I mean, my son had his like fourth birthday and my other one had his 12th birthday, like literally in our house between my family. Like, it was just like the four of us. I'm like, this is so not a way to spend your birthday, especially when you're young. 6 (11m 34s): Exactly. And my daughter's third birthday may, may of 2020. So when she turned three, she's now just turned five. But I remember we had the parade birthdays where all the things Where all of our friends and family drove their cars into our call, the SAC before we moved out to the farm, drove in the cul-de-sac and we set up, you know, lawn chairs on the driveway. And my wife is so beautiful. It's such an incredible heart, the cheap set it up with flamingos and Palm trees and plants that we bought from, you know, from the store, you know, fake plants. So we decorated our driveway to be this circus inspired beach inspired extravaganza, and, you know, grandparents and friends and family drove by. 6 (12m 26s): And yeah, and I gave everybody a care package, which probably was illegal at the time, but I gave everybody a care 4 (12m 33s): Package 6 (12m 34s): With the Mickey with 375 milliliters of my newest flavor of vodka. And I realized it, handing it to them through their, through their, you know, they rolled down their window. I mean, having I'm like, are you allowed to have liquor in a vehicle while you're driving away from a kid's birthday party? Probably not, but actually in the state of Tennessee, I think you can have, you can have a open alcohol as long as, as long as you're not the one drinking it. I think in the state of Mississippi too. 4 (13m 3s): Yeah. As long as you're not drinking, which is wild because actually I just moved to Nashville. That's why I was curious if you lived here. So we moved from San Diego, California, Southern California to here. And that was one thing somebody told me, like, you're literally the person next to, you can have like an open container in the car, as long as the driver, obviously isn't drinking, but it's like, that just blew my mind. They were in California, I think, has to be in the trunk, like shut even definitely closed. Everything has to be far away, 6 (13m 29s): Probably locked it into safety. I, California is so beautiful, but it is such a, a wild place in terms of, you know, a lot of my friends that, you know, that are in the music industry have moved out of California, you know, especially the Los Angeles area, a bunch of buddies from San Diego either moved to Nashville or they moved to Austin, Texas. And it's crazy because there's great culture in Nashville and there's a great vibe and there's a lot of people who are very forward-thinking in Nashville and Austin yet. You're still in a state that is deep rooted in tradition and deep rooted in the entrepreneurial spirit and a bit of a, more of a capitalist mentality, which has an Alberton, you know, a guy who grew up with oil and cattle, you know, we're, we're capitalists. 6 (14m 16s): So I, I do, I do love living in Tennessee where I can have all these wonderful, great, you know, forward thinking opportunities and, and yeah, just great culture while still knowing that deep down inside. There's a lot of people that still control the state of Tennessee and the beautiful city of Nashville. And, you know, I, I think I'm pretty aligned with, with some of those folks too. 4 (14m 40s): Oh yeah. I completely agree with you. And I didn't realize that people were moving out in our herds here. And then 6 (14m 46s): I heard 4 (14m 47s): People I'd run into the, I'd go into the Kroger or whatever. Like, oh, we're just moved from Olivia guest, California. Like, like how do you know this? They're like, you're like one of the thousands person that I've talked to, and this is like, you know, over a year ago. And now I'm seeing even more and more and more people like, it's just, it's so wild. Like my whole neighborhood, like half of the people that live here from California 6 (15m 10s): Well, and good for you to come come your, you know, a year ago or more. And I'm sure based on California prices to Tennessee prices, it wasn't that big a deal in terms of real estate. Although things in Tennessee are going up, Matt, 4 (15m 23s): We got lucky. We got in right under the radar thing, man. 6 (15m 27s): Amazing. Cause you, you probably still still have made over the last year, regardless of where you live in, regardless of size your house, you probably are sitting on quarter million dollars of additional equity today right now 4 (15m 41s): With 6 (15m 42s): Great move while the world 4 (15m 46s): It's so bizarre. But yeah, dude, why don't we get back to your music? So I'm so interested. So at six years old, your grandma gets you, this guitar out of a Sears catalog. You said you didn't take lessons. It was basically, you're just learning by ear off of the radio. 6 (16m 1s): Yeah, that was exactly it. And my parents used reverse psychology on me because I did take lessons for two or three weeks in a row. And I didn't like them because, you know, I was learning series and I was learning 4 (16m 15s): Scales and all that, 6 (16m 17s): All that shit. I want him to play Johnny Cash, music, Johnny Cash. He doesn't know theory, you know, it's three chords and the truth That I knew this. And, and so he or my, my dad and my mom, they said, look, if you quit lessons, will he still play guitar? Because we'll let you quit lessons, but you have to keep playing. And I'm like, absolutely. I promise you, I will play every day. And they're like good, as long as you're learning songs. And so my dad would give me songs to learn. And you know, now I'm 7, 8, 9. My dad would say, Hey, you know what? I know how much you love country music sign, but you know, there's a whole other world out there. So he took me downstairs to his record collection and we listened to Eagles and CCR and Verizon and the Doobie brothers and a bunch of great Canadian bands like April wine and Backman Turner overdrive and the guests who, and in a D chord <inaudible> American woman. 6 (17m 14s): And like, you know, and I love that. And I love to impress my at and please my parents. And I wanted to please my grandparents. So that was my gift to them. And my grandpa would be like, Hey, can you learn a song by, by love, by the Everly brothers? And they play it on a record and I'd be like, yeah, I can do that. I'd sit with them for an afternoon. And I learned it and I presented it to my grandpa. So that's how I became kind of a bit of an encyclopedia of all of these amazing cover songs. And if you and I were having a drink together and we're in, you know, in, in your home where we're sitting on the front porch and all your California neighbors are together and someone's like, Hey, can you play a song by John Mayer? Or, Hey, can you play this song, you know, by guns and roses or this one by Dwight Yoakam? 6 (17m 57s): I probably can. You know, I've probably heard it because I was always playing for my family. 4 (18m 2s): That's so cool. So you learned a lot by ear out. It sounds like you can hear something and then figure it out. Which a lot of people can't do that. I mean, but then a lot of people will have to like look up the tablature, whatever it is, learn to know. I mean, to have that skill, that's so impressive. That must be so much more helpful. Did you ever learn to read music or were you like, I don't need to cause I can just hear 6 (18m 24s): No. I felt that that learning to read music would have taken me on a different path and extraordinary path. Don't get me wrong because if you can read music and you can tell your brain can tell your fingers what to do, based on what you read, that is an extraordinary skillset. And those who play classical music are playing symphonies and orchestras are elite musicians far greater than what I will ever be in terms of music. But the reality is that once you know, that you're somewhat, you're really confined to what's on the page and I want a more creative path. The creative path allows me to hear with my ear and determine whether or not I'm actually going to play with the guitar is actually playing, or maybe just take a bit more of an approach with what the bass guitar is playing, laying down the foundation of the song, or I'll take an opportunity to say, okay, the fiddle is doing this really interesting thing in the background. 6 (19m 18s): And if I just play a little bit higher up on the strings, I can mimic that. So I can make my sound a little bit more full if I'm just accompanying myself. Whereas if I just got the sheet music for George Strait's Amarillo by morning, I'd have to play just what the acoustic is. And I wouldn't be able to deviate from that plan. And I'm definitely a guy who does not want to be in a box or be confined to a box. I want it to destroy the damn thing. 4 (19m 42s): I love that. Yeah. Well, that's your right. I mean, creatively, if you're looking at a sheet of paper, you're almost learning, okay. If I see this, I'm going to play this and you might even put yourself in a box even more when you're looking at it, because it almost becomes more like a mathematical thing, right? I mean, these things go together and then this goes together like this. And then if you're only thinking that way, you won't try to experiment otherwise when it comes to theory and what notes should go with, what? And I feel like there's, I mean, here in national million great players that could, you could go in and be like, I need a bass player and this in your, like, here's how the song goes. And then they could just, they know all the theory, then all the things that can make it sound, however you want it, like, you know, in a second, but not your brain is working in a totally different muscle than that. 6 (20m 29s): Yeah. And, and Nashville is an extraordinary hybrid of, of both cultures and music and both, both paths as I was describing. And exactly as you're describing, because you have these great bass players in these great drummers and guitar players and fiddle players that are the best on planet earth in the category of country music and the best of what they do. So in Nashville years ago, there was a number system that was developed that is called the national number system where it's based on instincts, but it's based on, on theory, but it's not really notes. It's just your chord. And it allows you to interpret, but you know where the song is going to go. So to explain it properly is in theory, if I'm playing in the key of a, a is my wine. 6 (21m 16s): So if the, if the key is a, we're going to say, this is Brett Kissel's new song and it's in a, so you have, anytime you play the note a or the chord eight that's a one, then B would be two C would be three and D would be four. And you know, in theory, it's a D and E one, four and five. So you play the intro is 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 4, 4, 4, 4 5, 5 1. And so you write that down on the chart and your drummer, your fiddle player, your steel guitar player, your guitar player, they know it. 6 (21m 57s): So they know, all right, here's the intro. It's going to be 1145, which means one bar of one, one bar of one, one bar 4, 1, 4, 5, bringing it back to one. That's the intro. So I can holler that out on Broadway today at Tutsis. All right, boys, we're going to do working on my next broken heart by, by Brooks and Dunn, key of G we're going to go to the five for the intro for two bars walk or to Alon back to the five chord, which is D back to the one, which is, and that's how you play it. So, and it's only in Nashville called the Nashville number system. 4 (22m 40s): That is so incredible. I've talked to so many people and so many musicians, and a lot of them that have been here, lived here and no one's ever told that story. That is so incredible. I always confirmed that. I was wondering like that in like jazz, where it's like, how did these people just know what everyone else is doing and where they're going? And it doesn't sound like a total disaster. 6 (23m 2s): Oh, I'll tell you a funny story about jazz. And everybody listening in lodge thing is going to be so angry with me about what I'm about to say, but it's from my kids. And, and so I was playing them some, some jazz, some, some really improvised jazz. And of course they understand the structure of country music. You have an intro verse, chorus, a solo verse, of course. And then you're done, and my son Leo, and played him some improvised jazz, just to see what he's thinking. He says, dad, why, why are they playing? So, so many notes, they're playing all the wrong notes. I don't like son that's jazz. 6 (23m 42s): Oh, I don't like jazz. It says, 4 (23m 48s): But it's so true. It's like, I don't even know how to fall along with these. It's just, it's a totally different world for me. I love listening to it. But like, if I just, it just blows my mind. So I'm like, how did these people just know and feel and feed off what everyone else is doing and make it sound good. And even with that, with going into, you're playing with new, probably new band members, I mean, especially early on, maybe, I mean, probably have a solid group of people now, but in the beginning you're like, okay, this is kind of how my song goes. And then they have to know it like instantly 6 (24m 16s): Well, and they do know it instantly based on the instincts that we all develop over time. And so from the time I was six, but really, really getting into guitar, you know, nine or 10 to where, where I'm at right now, the instincts that I've developed and that a guy like Frank Mason, one of, one of the best guitar players ever, or you look at Keith urban or Brad Paisley, they're instincts. They just automatically know instinctually that that song is going to elevate in the chorus. So if you're playing in the key of G you know, it's probably going to go to the key, it's going to go to C for the chorus. And you know that it's going to wrap up around and once secure, once you get it. 6 (24m 60s): And now it's those guys that are great, you know, guitar virtuals who can solo, they can solo over that. Cause they know the progression, they know what's coming up. So they know their scales and they just instinctually know, it's almost a situation where you're a goalie in hockey and you're seeing a play form. And you know, there's a two on one and you know, there's a very, very good chance that, because this guy's got the puck, he's a shooter. He will not pass the, I just know instinctually what he's going to do or where the puck's going to be. Do you know the great wide receivers in the NFL and Tom, Brady's such a great quarterback. He just knows. He's going to throw to this area. 6 (25m 40s): And wide receiver knows to a degree based on plays. They run in the instances that they have that if I run this route and I go posted it, I'm just going to quote to the back corner of the end zone. Very good chance. I'm going to look up net. Football's going to hit me right in the numbers. And you just know that. So when Brad Paisley is playing a song that he's never heard of mine, and he calls me up on stage, like he did in this random city, in Indiana, that I opened for him. He brought me up on stage and he's like, play one of your songs. And I know for a fact, he's probably never heard it, but I do the intro and he's just playing a little bit quieter. Then I look at him for a solo and he nails the most extravagant guitar solo because he just instinctually knows where the song is going to go. 6 (26m 24s): And that is true raw talent. And again, you'll only really find that in Nashville. Wow. 4 (26m 30s): That's what you hear. You're on tour with him. And he'd just, I want to hear this story cause that's so amazing. So you're probably playing a massive what stadium. And then he goes, Hey, Brett, come up on stage. Or like, okay, tell me the story. I don't want, 6 (26m 44s): My show had got rained out as an opener. So I, I missed my staff. It was me then Chris young, then Brad Paisley in Indianapolis. And Brad is just one of the nicest guys. And we formed a really strong friendship over the years. And Brad, he, you know, he, he came into my dressing room and said, Hey, look, you know, I know you got rained out, but I'll bring you up. When I go to the B stage, you know, that little stage behind front of house, that's closer to the back of the arena. He says, when I go and I play there, I'll call you up. And then let's play a couple songs together. So I'm like, absolutely. What do you want to play? And he says, whatever you want. So I played one of my own, which is what he asked. And then I said, Brad, I know how much you love classic country music. 6 (27m 26s): I said, do you want to do a Merle Haggard song or a bucket? One song? He says, let the crowd decide. We did a Merle Haggard's tumbled, Okie from Muskogee. And we played that song. The crowd just loved it. And then Brad's like, do you want to play one of mine? I'm like, absolutely. So I, I grabbed the D chord and I went, nah, I got some big news bang finally came through and I sang mud on the tires with him. And then the band kicked in and it was just, I get off the stage and my wife was looking at me. She was like, can you believe that just happened? And I'm like, no, I should have soaked it in more. You know? And that was, that was in 2015 or something like that. It's six, seven years ago, like man time flies. 4 (28m 6s): Wow. Wow. So you were playing what outside and then it was raining. So he was like on the big stage or a different, obviously 6 (28m 14s): He was like the, the amphitheater, so 4 (28m 16s): Oh, sure, sure. Okay. 6 (28m 18s): Kind of thing. So I, I did get rained out because they weren't going to let with lightning morning, they weren't gonna let the crowd in. So basically if I'm playing from seven to seven 30, but the rain is coming down, they're not really gonna open up the amphitheater until seven 30. So my show's already done, but what a class act and drag Paisley to understand that I'm just a kid trying to make it in the business. And he's like, instead of you playing to what would have been 10,000 of the 40,000 people at seven 30 anyway, why don't you come up and do three songs with me for the full 40,000? Like I would have told that 4 (28m 53s): Anyway. Right. 6 (28m 56s): Looking out, looking out for me, I think in, in, in that regard, 4 (28m 60s): That is so amazing. That is so amazing. I'm curious to know, like when did you start writing your own songs? So obviously you're picking up the guitar, learning off the radio or whatever have you, or your, you know, grandpa, dad, can you learn this song? Can you play the song? When do you decide? Like I should write my own song? 6 (29m 20s): Well, you know, I was kind of told to, because I didn't really want to write songs. I'm, I'm very different. I think most of the artists that you'll speak to, they love being in the studio and they love writing me. I really don't like the studio and I kind of really don't like writing songs, to be honest with you. All I want to do is play. All I want to do is play show and I want to play cover songs. Like I, I really do. But when I was in my, in my late teens, I realized quickly that I can't just be the cover song guy. You know, I'm 17 years old. And I was, I was making good money, playing a lot of rodeo dances and corporate events and stuff like that. 6 (30m 1s): But if I ever 4 (30m 2s): All would've said all covers all covers at that point. 6 (30m 5s): For the most part, I had a couple of like original songs. Not that I had written, but buddies had written for me that I'd recorded, but original material was what was going to get me a record deal. Original material was what I needed, you know, to get a big name manager. So I started to write songs because I was just told to, by so many other artists that I would be opening for in my late teens and said, man, you know what, what you're doing is great, but you need to write your own songs. You need to figure out what you want to say and what you want to be known for. So I really had some great mentors in Nashville in the early days, two guys, you may or may not have heard of, but Tim Taylor and Steve Fox are two guys that I wrote a lot of songs with an, I think they were so patient with me because if you write songs from the time you're 12 to 17, you've got five beers to get rid of bad ideas. 6 (30m 59s): I'm 17 and 18 and I'm full of bad ideas. So I have to get rid of all them. And these guys just sat with me and I wrote a hundred songs and 99 of them were terrible, but one of them was pretty good. And then, you know, the next year you write more and, and you start to develop more quality instead of quantity. And then I ended up developing, you know, a liking for it. But it's still a means to an end today. 4 (31m 24s): But you were going down to Nashville prior to writing, or is that when you started to really write? Okay. 6 (31m 31s): Just to soak in music city. And I would go to the country music hall of fame every single day. If I was there for seven days, seven straight days, I'd go there for at least an hour. Wow. Just so that I could read more stuff and I could learn about what Ernest Tubb did and I could read it about what Willie Nelson, Dan and Dolly Parton did it. And I, I just, I loved traditional country music so much. I really did. 4 (31m 56s): Yeah. I've never been there. I mean, like I said, we've lived here for a year. We haven't really had got out and done a whole lot yet just cause we, you know, new area trying to establish house Baba. But we recently went to the Johnny Cash museum, which was so cool. 6 (32m 12s): And that is, it's a small museum, but it is probably one of the best museums I've ever been to in my life because it had all the right things in it. And it is so interactive in the footage and the feeling. And every time I go to the Johnny Cash museum too, like I, I wound up dropping $200 cause there's another cool t-shirt or a cookbook for something else. My wife is like, do you need more Johnny Cash stuff? And I look at her, I'm like, yeah, of course I do kind of question. Is that like, of course 4 (32m 46s): It reminded me of the rock and roll hall of fame. Have you been there in Cleveland? 6 (32m 49s): No, I haven't been yet. 4 (32m 51s): It's very, it's a massive version of that. Like, I mean multiple floors, but like similar, cool stuff that you'll find that you're like, whoa, this is, you know, Jim Morrison's fourth grade, you know, grade card or whatever it is. It like just random, cool stuff like that. I felt like there was a lot of that at the Johnny Cash museum as well. 6 (33m 14s): Well, what, what do you love about the country music hall of fame? And I suggest go on like a random Tuesday, not, not a weekend, if you can, that way it's not too busy, but it's, it's a sacred place. And you're seeing there's two amazing spots there that I love. And one of them is this beautiful rotunda where you have all the breasts or the bronze face statues. Oh sure. Everybody who is in the hall of fame from George straight to Johnny Cash to Eddie Arnold, to, you know, Roy cuff to Minnie Pearl and Dolly Parton and Moelis goes on and you're just looking at, and it has a short bio 7 (33m 52s): Hurry into mattress firm for a limited time, save up to $500 when you get a king bed for the price of a queen or a queen for twin, plus get a free adjustable base with qualifying Sealy purchases up to a 4 99 value or get up to 60% off America's top rated brands like Sealy queen mattresses starting at 2 79 99, or Sleepy's at 1 69 99 in stock for best delivery. Only at mattress firm of restrictions apply, see store or mattress, firm.com for details. 8 (34m 23s): Freedom is a feeling and the best way to truly feel free is behind the wheel of a Jeep SUV. 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Once you exited the museum, four stories, high of wall-to-wall with no space in between gold and platinum records, that record labels and artists had donated, especially those like, you know, a buck Owens or, or Kenny Rogers who has 71 gold records, probably like they need to go in the hall of fame because Katie Rogers, you know, wasn't the, he doesn't even have enough space for 71 gold freaking records. 6 (35m 40s): So we just need small little hall. And so seeing four stories of golden and platinum records is an amazing thing to see and the history and the culture of country music, you, you can't beat it 4 (35m 54s): And you have a handful of them as well. So maybe, you know, you'll have your face in there one day and a black, 6 (36m 1s): Maybe in the Canadian sector, music hall of fame. But I got, I got to sell a few more records and I have a few more hits state side. And I think maybe that's where you come in. That's that's why I love these conversations to platforms such as yours with such a great reach, you know, around the world, but especially in the states, you know, to be able to tell my story and, and stuff, I'm, I'm very grateful for that and you play a really big part in it. So 4 (36m 25s): That's more than, you know, like, thank you. So, and I, I love the fact that you're here and I love the fact that you're back on here. And that means so much that you, you wanted to come back and do this again. We haven't talked much about your music though. I keep D we go in these, in these, in these dangers because I love what you're saying in these things, but 6 (36m 42s): Do we even have to 4 (36m 45s): No, no, no. He could go back. Well, actually on the Johnny Cash thing, you've got a letter from him. Didn't you like a headshot? 6 (36m 51s): Yeah, I did. Cause this, this has being filmed, correct? Yeah. Like, well, I'll show you real quick. So this is, this is the photo right here. Well, with the glare, let's take it off the wall here. Oh 4 (37m 3s): Wow. 6 (37m 5s): So when I was a kid, June Carter passed away in may of 2003, so I'm 12 years old and I wrote Johnny Cash, a letter, my condolences, just saying, you know, I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm your biggest fan up here. You're in Alberta, Canada. And I can't imagine what you're going through, but you know, I'm so sorry for your loss. And I just, my grandparents, as I told you, I had an extensive record collection. So I just went Johnny Cash, fan club, Hendersonville, Tennessee. And I wrote it on yellow lined paper, putting it in an envelope and sent it from Canada to Tennessee and forgot about it. In the meantime, I made my very first recording and it's called keeping it country. 6 (37m 48s): So I was 12 years old. You can kind of see what the glare, So keeping it country, it was on CD. It was on cassette first, but then there's the CD. And so I recorded a bunch of Johnny Cash songs and it's Friday, September the 12th, 2003. My mom woke me up in the morning and she says, I've got some really great news, but also some standards. So what's the great news. She said, your concert, your CD release album release party concert has sold out. And which is great. It was in this little village where I grew up called Glenndon Alberta, which is a village of 250 people. And we sold almost 600 tickets for a full hour at 4 (38m 30s): 12 as well. 6 (38m 32s): Yeah. And we, and we, we sold tickets for 15, $15 and it was $5 went to pay for the parolees cause we had Portuguese and Kulak saw as a Ukrainian family. So we had a dinner after the show. So the $5 paid for the progress and the qubits on the $10 I got to Keith. So 10 times 600 is $6,000 for a 12 year old. Like what do I do? You know? And so I, I, my mom said, but the sadness is that Johnny Cash passed away this morning. And I remember crying and I, I, you know, in my hero, you know, it's this super, super sad day. 6 (39m 15s): And I dressed all in black and I was rehearsing for this concert, with this little band that I had hired to back me up. And my dad came home. He was a school teacher, came home from work and he had a big yellow envelope was shaky handwriting address. Timmy bought tonight, oh three St. Paul, Alberta, Canada <inaudible>. And I opened it up and it was a letter from Johnny Cash on the day that he died and the letter and, and the eight by 10 said to Brett Jesus first Johnny Cash. And so to receive that on Friday, September the 12th, I don't know if he signed up five days ago. 6 (40m 0s): I don't know if he signed it three months ago when he got the letter and it just, you know, took a while to get, but to receive it on Friday, September 12th is unbelievable. 4 (40m 9s): That is that, oh my gosh. That is so unbelievable. And the fact that he hand wrote it back to you, and it wasn't just like some, you know, response via like his management company that just print something off and then hand you like send you some glossy sign, like a long time ago and they just kind of packaged it in there and send it over. Like he literally like read your note, wrote you back. And like, that's so amazing. 6 (40m 37s): His, his fingerprint, this, I mean, it's behind, it's a very expensive frame. I went to a frame shop and I 4 (40m 44s): Basically 6 (40m 44s): Asked them for Bulletproof glass means more to me than the damn Mona Lisa, like really, like, 4 (40m 54s): I have a couple items in my house that way as well. There's like, I don't know if this, I told my wife, I'm like, if this place goes up, the kids, you, and then the, the there's like three items that will go before anything else? 6 (41m 7s): Can I ask what those items are? Or one 4 (41m 10s): Of them is a sign? No, I can give you the two I can think of, of earth. There's three. I have a gold record from this band called the streets because I used to do radio for 17 years before starting this podcast. And I had the opportunity to be the first guy to play the record. And then it sold 500,000 copies. So I got a gold album with my name on it from, from Interscope, from which was like blew my mind, like the fact that to watch this band, like, do what they did. And then, I mean, the songs in the new Singh movie, like Halsy things like it, just to see what it's done is just so crazy. To me, that was one, the CD, the, the, the, the setlist from their very first show ever that it says like, thanks for the first play. 4 (41m 55s): And that they're also, they all signed it. And then I have a signed a thing from Taylor swift that says to Adam, love Taylor swift. And I'm like, okay, those three things are going out of the house from me. 6 (42m 5s): <inaudible> sweetheart, you got the kids take that. I'm gonna go get the memorabilia, 4 (42m 12s): Let me grab these three things. So those are like my, the three things that I'm like, I can't, I, if they're in Bulletproof glass essentially as well, so, 6 (42m 22s): Well, I think it's important to keep those things cause those memories, it's not material things. These are extraordinary memories in our life is a true timeline. And you can look back to that time free podcast, your time at radio orphan with the struts and, and knowing that you were a real big part of that launch and that sort of those blips on the timeline, almost like a heart graph, you know what I mean? And how I describe my, my life in terms of their timeline. And I just love we have these blips, like the Brad Paisley story or the Johnny Cash story, or you, your time, your encounter with Taylor swift is, you know, one of the biggest artists in the history of, of music, not just the last 20 years, but I believe she'll be in probably the top 20, 25 artists of all time in 4 (43m 9s): Terms of 6 (43m 10s): How she's affected musical culture. 4 (43m 13s): Yeah. It's just some of those moments you like, like what you're saying, you got off the stage with Brad Paisley and you're like, I didn't even have time to like, understand what just happened. Like, it was like one of those things where I got, like, I played the record and I, that happened so many times where I play a band on the, on the air for the first time, like, oh, you know, here's this, and then it doesn't do, it's never done, you know, anything. And then you'll get these moments of like, whoa, this one band like really did it. Like, I mean, it was cool to be a part of it and really push them and help them. And, but to see like, there's so many other chances that other, you know, that never just didn't happen, but, you know, 6 (43m 51s): That's, that's the real crazy thing. And the wild thing about the music business is that you can go up and down Broadway today, you in the radio business heard so many great tracks. And where are these bands today? You know, what, what are they doing now? Everyone had an opportunity. I had a chance to, I had a chance that, you know, spend a little bit of time briefly with, with Steven Tyler at a fundraiser up in Calgary. And I'm talking a brief moment in time, but what he told me, you know, when we kind of got into a bit of a conversation where I was really asking for advice, but I didn't want to be like, give me some advice, but he ended up alluding to is that anyone has just as good a chance of being a superstar as, as anybody else. 6 (44m 42s): And everybody comes from somewhere, Wayne Gretzky, small town, Brampton, Ontario, and became the greatest 4 (44m 51s): Player ever 6 (44m 52s): Greatest hockey player ever. You know, everybody to a degree as humble beginnings, LeBron James, Michael Jordan, you look at Dolly Parton is from the Hills of Tennessee and who'd have ever thought that she'd be this icon. So Steven Tyler, you know, from, you know, I know he's from Boston and the Boston area. And so you think about that and it's like, everybody is from somewhere and everybody has an opportunity to be successful. So that really kind of gave me a kick in the ass and lit the fire under me to, to understand that just because I'm from a farm in flat lake Alberta in the middle of nowhere, doesn't mean I can't make something of myself know, I don't have to be from New York. 6 (45m 32s): I don't have to have a rich parent, you know, I can, I can, I can do this. 4 (45m 37s): So what would you say, like speaking to that, like what, was there a moment that kind of landed that way for you that you were able to capitalize on and didn't really even realize what had happened until maybe it started to really work out for you or, 6 (45m 53s): Well, if I think about, you know, all of the songs, you know, to go back to what you were saying about radio and we were playing these songs and some of them just don't get traction. I remember the first time on the national scale when my first single was played and how it immediately got traction and to a degree, I don't know why it did because there are so many other great songs out there. Why, why not them? Why me or why me not them. I mean, I felt that we had all the recipe for success in terms of, of, of a great song, but when there's a million great songs, why does mine rise to the top? I still don't know, but because it got so much traction, that was a moment where I'm now traveling across Canada or I'm in a shopping mall or I'm in an airport that people are starting to recognize me, or I'm hearing this song, just want a Spotify playlist that just happens to be the Calgary airport playlist. 6 (46m 53s): And my song is on there. And with my wife or I'm with my buddies, I'm on my way to a bachelor party or I'm on my way with my band to a gig. And there it is, that's my song. And that was a really crazy moment to think. Like, I, I am everywhere right now. And it was a very, very surreal experience to think that, wow, this it's actually my might get some momentum and keep going. 4 (47m 17s): Yeah. It was that hard to kind of, you know, initially like understand what was not, I guess, understand. I don't know the word that would describe it, but like when people are now coming up to you and being like, oh, Hey Brett, like, I love your socks. Can I get a picture with you? Or can I vote like, w like kind of that happening? Was that hard to like digest? Is it weird? 6 (47m 38s): It was the only weird thing about it or not strange. No, we're not strange. The interesting thing about it was that it started to happen a lot more often because of course it's as a kid who was playing locally and I played so many shows, everyone in my hometown knew what, what I did right. Then when you graduate everyone in my home city of Edmonton, Alberta kind of knew who I was and what I did, not in a conceited way, but I played so many events that someone would wind up seeing me the next Monday, I'd be at a hockey game and be like, Hey, I saw you at that fundraiser, you know, for kids with cancer, you know, on the weekend, you did a great job. 6 (48m 19s): So that was always happening in my teens, but it was the most unique when I'd be in downtown Toronto at the Eaton center, which is the big mall and down in the town for I'd be at a blue Jays game in Toronto, or I was in Vegas and granted, these were Canadians, but I was on a bachelor party with the boys in Vegas, and we're coming out of an Aerosmith concert. And there was this part of about a dozen people, you know, six couples. And they were like waiting for me and my guys all to come out because they had seen us kind of on this VIP area, the side of the stage, they're like, we recognized you were, were, were from Halifax, Nova Scotia, or we're from Newfoundland or whatever. 6 (49m 6s): Like we saw it was you, can we get a picture? And I'm like, that's wild to me. I feel very much like I'm still a farm kid. You know, I know just like after, after this podcast, I'm going to go and help my dad and our handyman Mike go fix our barn. You know, like it is so surreal. 4 (49m 26s): I love that. I'm speaking to you saying earlier that like playing live is your thing, right. You love playing live. You'd love it more than being in the studio more than writing. Like how crushing was it that you couldn't play for? Like, and how did you like fill that hole with COVID happening? And then the world shutting down for nearly what to over two years now? 6 (49m 48s): Well, it was, it was devastating, especially for, for us here in Canada, who, you know what, and it's, it's, again, it's such a, such a polarized topic, but for me, on a personal standpoint, it was very difficult for me to figure out what my true value was and to the world. Because if you take a stage out from under my cowboy boots and you take a microphone out of my hands and a guitar from off of my shoulders, what good am I real? You know, I was really good at music, but, but I don't have any other skills. I have nothing else to fall back on. This is my bread and butter is my life. 6 (50m 29s): And now it's gone and I didn't know how long it was going to be gone before, you know, and, and now, so, but then you realize that likes on Instagram just don't matter. And, and maybe streams on Spotify don't matter as much as, as, as they used to, because there's something really big going on in the world right now. So I had to truly restructure my entire mindset. And I think that to a degree, I'm just kind of getting out of that fog and out of that funk right now, I've tried to remain positive. I love my family. I've got an extraordinary wife and I love my life and my ecosystems here, but, you know, I, it was just such a strange out of the body out of this world experience to be shut down and cooped up, you know, go from 300 days gone every year, no matter what to 365 days straight at home. 6 (51m 27s): Very, very interesting. 4 (51m 29s): Were you writing quite a bit that way? Or was it just like, at like what point do you come stir crazy? And you're like, okay, I should write. Or was it pretty quickly on that you're writing songs or, 6 (51m 40s): You know, after my, my managers told me you've been given a gift start writing songs, and I didn't want to write at all, I just, I procrastinated. And I was like that old bull in the field that you need to bring home from pasture. And he's like, screw this. I'm living out here. I'm retired, I'm done. I literally felt that way. I, I had nothing to write about because everything was about the live show. I would write towards the live show. Even if it was a ballot, I wanted to pull on the heartstrings of my crowd. If it was a live up tempo, get your drink set up. 6 (52m 20s): And let's party our faces off kind of song. I got no shows to play. So why do I want to write songs? Like I looking back now, like I, a hundred percent I was depressed and I've never used that word and I don't use it lightly, but you know, like it was a real dark cloud over me. And so I didn't want to write until I wrote one song with Eric Paslay and Eric Pasley great, great artists in Nashville. I don't know how it got hooked up to right on zoom. But we, we wrote a song called down to earth and those lyrics really spoke to me. And we didn't talk about the pandemic, but we talked big time about how disliked did he and I are living, you know, we both retreated to our farms and maybe that's what life's all about. 6 (53m 12s): We're just going to get right back down to earth. Well, way out where the good things grow. Cause there ain't no roots in that downtown rodeo. Sometimes you got to put in the work, tip it on the back and get right back down to earth. And then his back half of the course was soak up that full moon high and find yourself lost in a never-ending sky full of stars, feed in the dirt, giddy on up, and get right back down to earth. And that's exactly what we did. And that was a pivotal moment that a year into the pandemic that made me say, okay, maybe I can write songs like this. Cause at least that's good from my heart. 4 (53m 46s): Wow. And then did you, oh, well I want to talk to you about the 98 degrees song. So how does this thing come together? Was it similar? Like I've seen videos of you guys talking over zoom. Was it that how it was done? 6 (53m 58s): This song came together in a unique way because I wrote it with Karen because I was skiing. Tim Nichols, pre pandemic 4 (54m 5s): Had 6 (54m 6s): Always loved the song, but didn't know what to do with it. My manager, Jim Cressman and Jeff Timmins of 90 degrees are good friends. Jeff reveals in a conversation maybe while they're working out. I don't know. We were thinking we might do a country record one of these days. And Jim says, what you're going to do with country records. You should hear the song. My client Brett Kissel wrote. And Jeff's like, absolutely man, send it to me. So Jim sends it to Jeff, Jeff and his wife Pierrot and love it circulated with the rest of the boys, Justin and drew and Nick, Nick, and his wife love it. 6 (54m 47s): They say, we're going to get into the studio, let's record this. But then their plans fell through to do their own country records. So Jeff reaches out to Jim and says, we still love the song. Do you think Brett would want to do it with us? Like what a crazy question I've ever in my life. Of course, all I wanted to do it with you guys. It'd be amazing. Like, Hey, we're going to go out together in Vegas and you know, we've got this great, we've got this great studio here, so we'll cut it and we'll send it back to you. We send it back in like a half an hour. Like these guys are one take wonders, the songs you hear it right now. I swear, took them a half an hour. And then, and then they sent it back to me and were like, this is a monster song. 6 (55m 29s): This is unbelievable. You guys took this to whole new Heights. Then we organized the process as to when we're going to release it. And that took a bit of a year to navigate a five shows are going to come back and, and what we can really do. So we've been sitting on this for about nine months, but I love the song. I'm so grateful that the four of them bought into this song as if they wrote it themselves. So I'm so grateful for their, you know, their talent and their professionalism and their kindness. 4 (55m 59s): That's so awesome. That's so, I mean, they've all obviously done such big things. I remember I can still vividly remember seeing their videos like on TRL when I was a kid, like, you know, in my high school years, like, oh my God, absolutely. And then, then to have them on your record, which is a country record that you would never assume they were like in that whole and lane and it works and it's, it's such a cool song. And I love on your Instagram, you say like future member of 98 degrees. 6 (56m 27s): Well, I mean all, all the big boy bands have five members, right? So w 4 (56m 32s): What happened? 6 (56m 33s): Well, I'm hoping that the boys will, even if, even if it's just for a day, if those guys can go, you know, to staples and get one of those certificates and write it in a Sharpie, Brett Kissel honorary member of 98 degrees, that's all I need. And I put that to be a little tongue in cheek, just to see if the guys will notice that I'm a, I'm trolling them a little bit for that invitation. 4 (56m 59s): Yes. Yeah. And then if you get that, you need to put it in Bulletproof frame next to your Johnny Cash picture. 6 (57m 6s): Yeah, exactly. 4 (57m 9s): Oh, I love that. Have you had a chance to, I mean, speaking to live shows, like, is that something you have plans to do soon or, 6 (57m 18s): Yeah, we've got some really, really great shows on the books for this year and some exciting stuff for 2023, that's coming down the pipe. But I, I am doing a very, very specific tour this year called it's Showtime. And so I've selected about seven or eight venues in Canada that I love, or I haven't been able to play for years, or I've never played before. And we're just going to play these shows plus our festival dates. So we've got some great, great venues lined up and we're selling a lot of tickets, which is really nice that people are ready to get back in the saddle. And I've said it many times, but I think we're all gonna make up for lost time. 4 (57m 56s): Yes. I love it. Have you, had you played a show yet or is this going to be your first one? 6 (58m 1s): My first one of the year. And I've only done one other than like some corporate stuff here and there or some fundraising stuff. I did a, I did one in Calgary and it was like, get back on the saddle concert basically. And we sold about 4,000 tickets and my friend, Jess, Moskaluke opened for me and I made a new friend and Tyler Joel Miller. Who's a great up and coming artists who was the opener for jests and everybody just partied, like people, people drank and made up for lost time over the last two years. And they sang along and I was supposed to play for 90 minutes. I think I played for two and a half hours just because I could, I asked the venue in the city of Calgary because they have a noise bylaw curfew. 6 (58m 48s): But if you go past 1130 and I said, what's the fine. And they said $1,500 for every half hour. And he said, oh shit, is the outfit on $1,500. I'm sinking until midnight. So I got, 4 (58m 60s): Ah, I love that. Well, it's funny that you brought that up because when Paul McCartney played at Coachella, they have a noise restriction. I think it's a thousand dollars a minute that 6 (59m 10s): You go over my guide. 4 (59m 11s): And he went over, he went over by 90 minutes. So he paid like 90 grand just in fines because he wanted to keep playing. 6 (59m 21s): So I love that. Cause that's, that's a flex, you know, when you're, 4 (59m 25s): When you feel for you to pay 1500 bucks to just keep playing, like, that's, that's a flex too. I mean, you're talking about the biggest artists ever on the planet, right? 6 (59m 34s): I'll tell you a funny flex that I, that I saw live in Toronto, the, the rolling stones were playing their tour and it happened to be my birthday. And one of my really good friends, Steve Cody took me to the concert and Keith Richards, you know, Mick Jagger's the best front man of all time and Keith Richards. So he took the mic for one and he grabs his cigarettes that were rolled up in his sleeve here, like it's 1950s. And he grabs grabs one and he says, say, it's a $15,000 fine. If I like this up in the crowds buzzing, it goes like this. 6 (1h 0m 16s): He lights it up and he takes the drag and he puts it in the headstock of his Telecaster. And then they started playing the next song. Like I'm, I'm, I'm in the suite, but I'm, I'm at the opposite end, right in front of the stage, put in the furthest end. I swear. I could smell that cigarette. I swear. And maybe it's my mind playing tricks on me. Cause I wanted to smell that Marlboro red so bad, but I 4 (1h 0m 44s): $15,000 6 (1h 0m 47s): Smell that cigarette. We were like, this guy is cooler than we will ever be. You know, 4 (1h 0m 53s): That's so awesome. That is, that's a great story. Oh man. Well, Brett dude, thank you so, so much for doing this. This has been so much fun. I am so happy that I was able to chat with you today. 6 (1h 1m 6s): I, I loved it. Thank you. Just, it was a great conversation and I don't, my publicist is going to say, you should have taught us more about new music, but we were too. We too busy having a great conversation about life and, and parenting and music. And I really enjoy it. And I haven't had one this, this special or this in depth in years, maybe since the last time I was bringing it back. Got it. 4 (1h 1m 31s): I love it real quick. Now speaking to that, I want to know, yeah. Cheer a new music. You have obviously 90 degree. So when you have a record in the works, 6 (1h 1m 40s): Yeah, I am working on a new project that will hopefully be out kind of early November or late October. And it will be, I posted one little thing about it a couple of weeks ago where I said I'm in the studio working on the most extraordinary and extravagant record of my life and it'll be unlike anything I've ever done. It's very difficult to describe because I think you and I need an hour just to dive into kind of the head space than I was in to make, to make this record. I've never been more excited cause I'm not a street guy, but I've never been more excited about this. It'll, it's better to really about all the different sides of me as a human being and as an artist. 6 (1h 2m 26s): So now that after COVID, I realized there's no rules anymore. So let's just make this extraordinary record that really hits all of the different sides of me as, as a person that I'm really proud of. And I want to, you know, double down these efforts on all these different sides of me and have the courage to do that and not just be confined to the box that I've been confined to, although the last few years, 4 (1h 2m 52s): So the records coming out, you said, now I want to hear the whole story. So I'm going to have to set up another interview with you. You have to come back again. 6 (1h 2m 58s): I think you will, because there, there are a lot of great stories and great, you know, universe moments that have happened with this, with the making of this record and with the direction that I'm done, I'm choosing to go down, I'll tell you my working title right now. It's called the compass project. And so it's, it's about my internal company. Excuse me. It's about my internal compass. Yeah. Okay. 4 (1h 3m 23s): Well, I would love to have you back then to dive really deep into that because the, and now I'm just so fat. I'm so excited to hear about it. So, so before November where you're, you're coming back on, 6 (1h 3m 35s): I promise 4 (1h 3m 36s): We'll dive deep into the record. Cause yeah, I knew that the 98 degree song was out. I figured you had probably a project coming, but now I feel bad that we didn't dive deep into that. 6 (1h 3m 45s): No, it's not a problem because it's still so much in the works, but you know, what we should do is closer to release. You know, I I've got a home in Nashville, obviously your, your natural let's up, let's get together. Whether it's your place or my place, we pick a really unique venue. Maybe, maybe we can rent a room at the country, music hall of fame and we can be in that rotunda. And let's, let's, let's talk there. Let's let's do an episode there. 4 (1h 4m 11s): Oh man. Yeah. I love that. I love that idea. I was going to actually dude. Great. Okay. We'll talk about it and just, yeah, we'll talk about it real quick. One more quick question for you. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists and I would, and I'm so taking up on this in person thing. 6 (1h 4m 30s): Okay. For sure. Give me a second. Cause I got a bit of a frog in my throat. 4 (1h 4m 33s): No, go for it. And I've had you talking for over an hour. I'm sorry, 6 (1h 4m 39s): Please, please. Don't apologize. Hard work pays off. It's as simple as that, because in this business, if you use me as an example and a very low level example, I know that I'm not the best singer. Shamoon is the best singer. Carrie Underwood. They're the best singer. I know I'm not the best guitar player. That's Keith urban and Brad pasting. I know I'm not the best entertainer I love to entertain, but I know I'm not the best. It's Garth Brooks. You know, it's it's that level. But I, and I know I'm not the best songwriter. 6 (1h 5m 20s): That's Alan Jackson, that's Hardy, that's Morgan wallet. But what I do believe I'm really good at is connecting and working hard. And if I can work hard at all my different crafts, you know, areas of my craft, I believe that there's a reasonable chance that I can be successful. And so if you were driven by those statistics for success and success is different to everybody else, my version of success is different than yours, different than the next artist. But if you can work hard, that's where you're going to get those opportunities. So continue to work hard. That's the only thing I really know, and I can really speak to truly, and it goes for not just aspiring artists, but any business oil cattle. 6 (1h 6m 6s): If you're a teacher, if you're a nurse, if you're, if you're in entertainment, if you're an arts, if you're, it doesn't matter what you are. If you work hard, you will be successful.