Interview with Casey Baer

Hello it's Adam. Welcome back to bring it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieved stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Casey bear over zoom video. Casey was born and raised in Los Angeles in the valley, and she talks about how she got into music from the moment she could speak. She was humming and singing, writing songs. I think at six, there's a picture of her on her Instagram. At eight, she threw a birthday party where she had a DJ and she took the mic and did a bunch of songs for her friends. She told us about attending a writing camp when she was 16, she had never written a song at this time and she wrote her first one and had to perform it for this songwriting group. 4 (2m 12s): So she talks about how that went early, writing sessions she had when she was 17, 18 years old, eventually working with Sophie Simmons, who we've had a chance to interview. She's great. Obviously, her dad is gene Simmons of kiss, but you can go back and listen to Sophie's interview, highly recommended. It's awesome. But Casey works with her. She's the executive producer on Casey's record. So we talk all about her brand new EAP and this tour she's doing with Jesse McCartney, you can watch our interview with Casey on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it backwards. It would be awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik TOK at bringing back pod. 4 (2m 53s): And if you're listening to this on Spotify, apple music, Google podcasts, it would be awesome. If you follow Sarah as well and hook us up with a five-star review, 5 (3m 3s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 4 (3m 9s): We're bringing it backwards with Casey bear. 6 (3m 12s): Hey, 4 (3m 13s): How are you? 6 (3m 14s): I'm great. How are you? 4 (3m 16s): I am fantastic. I love the skateboard decks behind you. 6 (3m 18s): Thank you. 4 (3m 20s): Those are sick. 6 (3m 22s): Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I love them. This is my room. 4 (3m 25s): Oh, nice. What company made those or do you just 6 (3m 28s): They're my high lists. 4 (3m 30s): Those are dope. Yeah. I grew up skateboarding, so right away, I'm like, oh, those are sick. 6 (3m 36s): The ironic thing is that was like the one thing my brothers and I were never allowed to do a skateboard growing up. Like there were no rules, but there were no skateboarding 4 (3m 45s): Really too dangerous or something. 6 (3m 48s): It's like too dangerous. Like we all played sports and stuff like that. And I guess my parents just like, heard so many stories about like every kid breaking their arm or leg skateboarding, and then more kid died at my school. Yeah. But he was skateboarding like a gigantic mountain. 4 (4m 6s): Okay. And what fell? 6 (4m 9s): He just was going, he went, he ended up going like 50 miles an hour down this hill on a skateboard. And there was like a little tiny little pebble and he flew in practice open. And like, It was, it was really bad. 4 (4m 23s): Oh, 6 (4m 24s): I want to say in like 10th grade, 4 (4m 26s): What a way to start this interview. Oh my goodness. That's insane. You're going to be like, because the skater kids are always like the degenerates that were smoking cigarettes and that was more, my parents are like, I don't know if I want you to hanging out with these generous and I'm like, well, I'm going to hang out with them anyway. And then skateboarding San Diego 6 (4m 47s): LA. 4 (4m 48s): Oh, okay. Not too far away. 6 (4m 50s): One of the very rare ones. 4 (4m 52s): Sure. I know there's not many people from Southern California that are either living or still are actually born and raised there. 6 (4m 59s): No, completely. But we all like played sports and my parents were just like, not, we, my brothers were also like, we're a big baseball family, so my brothers were also not catchers And I played soccer and like, I wasn't a big coli. 4 (5m 14s): Okay. Well that makes sense. I wouldn't want my son. I have a six year old and he plays baseball and I don't want him to be catcher either. Like they're starting to put kids with catcher and I'm like, yeah, I don't need the ball. Hit him in the balls. It's all good. No, but yeah. So that's awesome. So you're born and raised in LA I'm Adam, by the way, I don't even know if I told you, 6 (5m 35s): Introduce 4 (5m 36s): Myself to you. Pleasure to meet you as well. Again, I appreciate you doing this. Yes. I love your EPR. Really want to talk to you about that obviously. And Sophie Simmons produced it, right? 6 (5m 50s): Yeah. She is my executive producer. 4 (5m 51s): That's the killer. I've interviewed her before. She is a legend, obviously from a legendary family as well. But 6 (5m 58s): She's the, she's literally a genius. Like there's nothing that woman cannot do. 4 (6m 4s): I know 6 (6m 4s): He writes a song in five minutes 4 (6m 6s): Really? That she works at quickly 6 (6m 8s): So quickly. 4 (6m 10s): That's crazy. I know some of the songs she puts out, I'm like, oh my gosh, like Leah, Kate, she wrote some songs for her and those, and she's blowing up and like, it's, it's awesome to see her career really do what it's doing. 6 (6m 22s): She's amazing. And I've learned so much, like, I'm so grateful for Sophie. And she has like the most incredible mentor and like, we've become so close. And so 4 (6m 34s): That's incredible. I love that. She, yeah, she's a lot more like behind the scenes, when it comes to the industry, as opposed to her, her dad being like front and center, 6 (6m 45s): Your friend, you know, 4 (6m 47s): I'm sure 6 (6m 49s): Out there behind the scenes type of vibe. 4 (6m 52s): Right. Very cool. So you're born and raised in LA. What part of LA did you grow up? 6 (6m 56s): I grew up in the valley. 4 (6m 57s): Okay. And how did you get to music? I did see, I was stalking your Instagram for a little bit here just to kind of do some research. And I saw a picture of you when you were like eight and you're like holding a microphone. 6 (7m 9s): Yeah. That wasn't my eighth birthday party. Actually. I had a birthday party. Yeah. We had a DJ because like growing up all, I mean, like I played sports, but like most little kids do, but since I was like, since I could speak, I, and even when I was a baby, I was humming. My parents were like, what is this kid doing? And nobody in my entire family, like distant and everything has any sort of musical. Anything 4 (7m 33s): Really? 6 (7m 34s): Yeah. No, it's weird. We're like, who is whose kid is this? If I didn't look like them, it would be weird. 4 (7m 41s): That'd be questionable. 6 (7m 43s): But yeah. So I was, as soon as I could talk, I was singing like Mary had a little lamb with like the Brado and like on key. And they're like, who is this? 4 (7m 51s): Wow. So they really embrace that. We're like, okay, she can sing really well. Let's put her in chorus and choir. And 6 (7m 59s): Whose kid is that? But then I went to my first concert. I was three and I went to the Hillary deaf concert and I was on my uncle shoulders. And I was hysterically crying because I wanted to be on stage with her singing. 4 (8m 15s): Wow. Hillary Duff is her first concert, 6 (8m 18s): My first concert. And Ever since then, I was like, well, she did it. I could do it. 4 (8m 24s): Yeah. 6 (8m 25s): That was the moment where I was like, I'm going to be a pop star. 4 (8m 28s): And you can remember that three years old. 6 (8m 30s): That was like one of my first memories. 4 (8m 32s): Wow. That's awesome. And you remember being on your uncle's shoulders and at the show? 6 (8m 37s): I just remember like seeing her right there and I was just like in awe. I was like, I want to go up there. Like, why can't I sing with her? I do that. 4 (8m 45s): Sure. So are you a Lizzie McGuire fan or is that before your time? 6 (8m 50s): No, totally. That's like, it came out. I'd want to say like, oh three. So I was free. I went two thousands baby. I was like, 4 (8m 59s): Wow. Okay. So yeah, you're watching that around the same time. And then you went and saw her concert. That's killer. That's awesome. 6 (9m 5s): And then, you know, the Lizzie McGuire movie came out, I think a couple of years later and I was just like, oh my God, this is my queen. 4 (9m 12s): Did you watch, what was her other movie? Something cadet, 6 (9m 15s): Cadet, Kelly, 4 (9m 16s): Cadet, Paley. 6 (9m 18s): I love that movie. It's a great movie. 4 (9m 21s): And then she was on the bachelor recently. I saw that. I was like, yeah, you didn't see that one of the most recent seasons. They like went to her house to, they like threw her kid a birthday party. You didn't see that. Maybe you just don't watch the bachelor. Who knows? Yeah. They were at her house, like throwing her kids a birthday party. I can't remember if it was the bachelor. 6 (9m 46s): How do, how does the bachelor throw a birthday party for? 4 (9m 50s): Because it was like, oh, let me just see how you act around children. You know, they do the 6 (9m 56s): Challenges. 4 (9m 57s): It was a group date. 6 (9m 59s): Oh, okay. 4 (10m 0s): I'm just feeding you all this amazing bachelor knowledge that I know 6 (10m 4s): I'm going to have to go look this up after 4 (10m 6s): You will. 6 (10m 6s): She's going to have so many hours on the butt on like toward, in the van. I'm just good. Like I'm collecting up, like everything I need to watch. 4 (10m 14s): Okay, Jesse. Oh yeah. You're doing the desk. Jessie McCartney tour. 6 (10m 17s): Yeah. I leave in tedious. 4 (10m 18s): So cool. Have you toured yet or is this Wow. Okay. We'll get there as well. I want to talk to you about that, but yeah, I forgot what season it is. I bet. If you just Googled the Hilary Duff, bachelor, it was recent. You could probably find it on like 6 (10m 33s): Hulu. 4 (10m 36s): Just look for that exact episode. Cause then you're not really, there's really no reason to dig deep into the most recent. Okay. 6 (10m 44s): Now I'm so excited. I have something to watch tonight. 4 (10m 47s): There you go. 6 (10m 48s): Also her son and my dog had the same name. Luca. 4 (10m 52s): Really? Yeah. Did you name her, your, your dog after her son? Oh, your dog told her and her kid. 6 (11m 1s): My little puppy seven. 4 (11m 3s): I don't know her kids. I don't have that big. I'm not that deep nailer. Wow. Okay. So Hilary Duff, your first show, you started singing early, early, early on, obviously in that picture, you're eight singing. Did you, do you play an instrument or did you? 6 (11m 19s): I play piano. I started playing piano when I was about five. 4 (11m 23s): Wow. 6 (11m 24s): And it was starting to stop for awhile. Five-year-olds are not great at focusing, especially when, you know, my teacher wanted me to play like classical and the books and everything. And I was just like, yo, I want to play Hilary Duff. 4 (11m 37s): Right? What do they do that I don't get that. Like, I've had this conversation before where it's like, if you want to have a kid, like really learn music and embrace 6 (11m 46s): A young, young kid. 4 (11m 47s): Right. Teach them the songs they want to know, 6 (11m 49s): Especially when they're eager to learn. 4 (11m 51s): Right. They can go back years later once they have the concept of everything and learn Bach if they feel like it. But there's, 6 (11m 58s): I barely remember how to read music at this time. I like, at this point I've never read music. I probably don't think I could anymore. 4 (12m 6s): I don't know if I'm a lot of people do. I mean, maybe you heard a session musician that has to like, be able to just look at something and play it right away. But if you're 6 (12m 14s): Writing musicians play by ear or by court. 4 (12m 17s): Right. Exactly. Wow. Okay. So you did piano. Where are you in your honor? The piano. Okay. How old are you in musical theater? That's six. Okay. 6 (12m 27s): My first show, it was high school musical. 4 (12m 29s): Wow. Okay. 6 (12m 31s): I loved it. And ever since then, I was like, okay, this is what I do. I perform on stage. 4 (12m 39s): Did you continue with that? Like through middle school? Out of high school? 6 (12m 42s): I continued with it. I think my last show I was about 14. 4 (12m 46s): Okay. 6 (12m 47s): Which was wicked. It was like maybe 12. 4 (12m 51s): Okay. 6 (12m 53s): I was Glenda. 4 (12m 54s): Wow. Okay. Did you like that? You said you had a birthday party and that's what your eighth birthday party where you're singing on the mic. What was 6 (13m 1s): That? 4 (13m 2s): Was that like a karaoke party or like, what was the birthday like theme? 6 (13m 6s): We had a DJ. 4 (13m 7s): It was just, you had a DJ you're like, okay, give me the mic. I'm going to sing 6 (13m 12s): The, we were doing like karaoke and dancing and it was in my backyard and it was just, it was a moment. And I was like, let me sing a song. And like, none of my friends. So growing up, I w none of my friends really did music. Like all of my friends were just like school friends or friends from soccer. And cause when I did musical theater, I was usually one of the younger ones. And like 15 year olds don't want to hang out with the six year old. I mean, like I was down to when I was 15, but like, whatever. 4 (13m 46s): Right. But when you are six to 15 year olds weren't down. 6 (13m 49s): Yeah. So a lot of my friends never were musical and I was kind of like the only one that like had that interest. So I was just like, okay, I'll sing. You guys can enjoy. And then yeah. 4 (14m 7s): When did you like find your tribe of people that enjoy like that were playing music and writing music? Was that later in life? 6 (14m 13s): That's like recent. Oh, 4 (14m 15s): Okay. 6 (14m 16s): That's like actually pretty recent. And like, I have the same best friend since I'm like five years old and she has zero musical, anything about her, which is probably why we've been best friends for 16 years. But that was kind of the way it was growing up. I didn't have that many friends that were musical. 4 (14m 38s): So it was just something you did. And not other people, 6 (14m 41s): Like my friends would come support me, but they never like fully did it with me. 4 (14m 45s): Gotcha. Did you write songs or anything like that? Through high school? 6 (14m 48s): I wrote my first song when I was like six. Well, the butterfly, I do not remember it at all. 4 (14m 55s): Do you remember the elephant 6 (14m 56s): Wrote one called down on the farm, which was literally old McDonald's but I just like changed up the words a little bit. 4 (15m 3s): So down on the farm in the valley of Los Angeles, 6 (15m 7s): Literally. Yeah, for sure. 4 (15m 10s): Okay. 6 (15m 13s): Took a hiatus for about 10 years. 4 (15m 15s): Okay. So at 16 you come back to, 6 (15m 18s): I went to a writing camp with James Fauntleroy and he's like one of the Kings of writing. Like he's so talented. He writes for Rihanna, Bruno, Mars, Kanye, like wow. Timberlake, like he's phenomenal. 4 (15m 34s): And how did you, where'd you find out was this guy running the songwriting camp Or just that 6 (15m 41s): The featured writer. Gotcha. Like you went to the camp for him, Like own the camp, 4 (15m 48s): But he was the guy like, yeah. 6 (15m 51s): That's why you want 4 (15m 52s): Traction. Sure, sure. 6 (15m 53s): Yeah. So I had no idea how to write a song at this point. I remember. And I was so nervous. So right before that I had really terrible anxiety and I stopped going to school for a little bit, lost all of my friends because people in LA surprisingly were like, oh my God, she's homeschooled. Like that can happen. So other than my best friend, I had no friends for a little while. And I felt like so shunned and isolated because everyone was super like, oh my God, no. Which was super hard. And I definitely think it made it worse, especially because I was hiding it the whole time. 6 (16m 34s): Cause I was like, oh my God, no one can know there's something wrong with me. Like other people feel like this. So when Justin Bieber released his purpose album, that was the first time I ever, I ever heard anyone speak about anxiety and not being perfect because especially grown, going to LA it's like show the best time of the rest. 4 (16m 55s): Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Or I don't like that, but it does make sense. 6 (16m 58s): Totally. So when he released purpose, that was the first time I heard someone talk about not being perfect. And I was like, oh my God, like someone, I already love feels like this. And 4 (17m 11s): That looks like him. And sounds like him and can write like him. It doesn't, you know, it's like, oh wow. Like other people really go through this, even though you'd look at him and be like, oh, let's do this bird. 6 (17m 21s): Like, I'm like, I'm like a kid. And I'm like, oh my God, like I'm not alone. And that was the moment I was like, so if he can make me feel like this through his music, if I could do this even a quarter of the amount for even one person, like that's my dream because I would not be in this position if I didn't hear his music at that point when I really needed it. 4 (17m 46s): Right. I mean, I feel like with, I mean, I don't know, I guess could go both ways. So like with social media now, maybe it's easier for kids to like seek out people that are speaking to that, like in a positive way. But like also it's the other way around with it's like, let's show your best self. What was that show? The best side of the rest? I mean, that's totally what like pretty much a lot of social media to the T. 6 (18m 10s): Exactly. 4 (18m 11s): So yeah. That's I mean, wow. Yeah. 6 (18m 15s): So that's kind of how I started into writing and I remember I got to the game and I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing, but I was so determined because I was like, all right, I've got to do what he did for me to somebody else. So I remember I tried to write the song. He was like, you guys have three hours to write a song and then we're going to perform them. I'm like, oh my God, I don't know how to write a song. So I remember I did it 4 (18m 37s): Now 6 (18m 38s): Because I was the only person there that never wrote a song. 4 (18m 41s): Oh wow. 6 (18m 43s): So I'm like, and like I knew like conceptually how to do it. And like I played piano, so I like couldn't have the music, but I wrote the song and then he made us all perform it for everyone. And I was like, 4 (18m 57s): How terrifying was that? 6 (18m 58s): Great. I'm performing as like, where I'm most comfortable. So it's like, I was like, that was like the only time I think it was ever like nervous to perform. Like that's usually where I'm most comfortable, like never in my life. Have I ever had any ounce of like, oh no, it's always been like, okay, I'm ready. 4 (19m 17s): Right. But I mean, do we have to be vulnerable? Right. You've got to show this group of people 6 (19m 22s): Who are all writers 4 (19m 23s): Write the song that you just wrote and you hadn't done it before. So it's like, okay, not only do I have a song that I just wrote, but I've got to like share it with all these people that are also songwriters. I mean yeah. That got, it had to be really a difficult. 6 (19m 36s): So I remember performing it and I was like, I completely bombed it. Like, it was horrible, so bad. And at the end he stood up and started clapping and like everyone stood up and started clapping. I'm like, I don't know why you guys were clapping. That was terrible. He's like, no, you did exactly what I wanted you to do. He was like, because you will never have a song or do anything that was like this, or felt like this again, because he's like, the words are there and everything is there, but you just need to learn it. And from that moment on he's like, you literally couldn't have done it better. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, whatever you say, I'm gonna listen to you because you write for one of my favorite people. 6 (20m 16s): So 4 (20m 18s): I can see where he's coming from. I mean, if you, like, you got, you know, you got over the hump, right. It's like, okay. 6 (20m 24s): Over the hump. 4 (20m 25s): Right. Or I feel like you were in recovery or something. If you like hit the rock bottom of the rock bottom, like now. Right, right, right. Was that something that it was hard to like kind of digest what he was telling you and like, were you self-conscious about moving forward with songwriting or 6 (20m 44s): After that? I was, oh, okay. I remember literally right. That and I was like, oh, thank you so much. I remember like I walked out of the room and walked near my mom's car and I was hysterically crying. And I was like, oh my God. Like, I just bombed that. And I was like, he said, you did, but I was also the youngest there. I was 16 and everyone else was like over 18. So my mom had to come. 4 (21m 3s): Oh, sure. Okay. 6 (21m 4s): And I was like, I just bombed it. Like everyone thinks I'm, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then mom's like, but he just told you, he, you did exactly what he wanted you to do. And so then I remember from that moment, I was like, okay, like I did that. And then that gave me after he was like, it's going to give you the confidence to know that like it's only going to get better. And that gave me the confidence to continue to go in with these other writers that knew how to write for the rest of the weekend and write music with them and open up and share feelings. And that's also another hard thing. Sometimes writing is like getting comfortable with someone you just met like five minutes ago and like tell them your life story 4 (21m 44s): Right there. Like, so what do you want to write about? You're like, ah, well, and you got to like give them the deepest, darkest secret. 6 (21m 50s): Yeah. And like, this is how, like, my life is really sad right now where like I'm sad or like I'm so happy. Like just giving them everything raw and everything. So it's that also showed me how to do that as well, Which was definitely a learning curve at that current moment. But after that for about like six months, I was just like, I still don't understand this. Totally. And then I started writing more and more and more, and then I kinda, it clicked. And then that 4 (22m 22s): Remember the moment it clicked, like, where are you? Like, oh, this is the, 6 (22m 27s): There are a few moments. I like vividly remember one of my, like the one where I was like, like the best song I ever wrote was like, in that time was with one of my good friends. Who's also, he's an amazing writer. He writes for like everyone he's actually on like the top 40 charts right now. But his name is Nick Lopez. And he was like one of the first like big writers that I worked with where he was the first. And that was really exciting because the song that we wrote together was one of my favorite songs that I'd written. That was the moment where I was like, okay, I'm a good writer. I felt like if I can work with him, then I was like, kind of like I had done something. 6 (23m 11s): Correct. 4 (23m 12s): Right, right. Validated what you're doing. 6 (23m 14s): Totally. So that was, that was definitely one of the moments where I was like, you go girl. 4 (23m 20s): Okay. Did you release the song? 6 (23m 23s): No. The song is actually not released. It's called let go. It probably won't ever be released. I wrote it when I was like 17. 4 (23m 29s): Oh, okay. Wow. You, so you're working with them that young. Oh, that's cool. 6 (23m 32s): Yeah. No, he gave me a shot 4 (23m 34s): Rad. And from there, did you continue to work with other writers and kind of just develop your craft? Like what happened from there? Okay. 6 (23m 42s): From there, I would just, I got the bug and anytime, you know, I was still going through all the anxiety and I hid the anxiety for a really, really long time because I was so, you know, like, oh my God, people are gonna think of me. Like, I'm weird. And like I said, it showed the best, hide the rest. And after a really long time, I noticed that like, people were starting to talk about it more. And it did take me a while. I think I was probably about 19 when I was like, hi, I have anxiety. I'm not perfect. It was really hard for a lot of years, but I'm here now. I still have my moments. I'm 21 now. And I still have my moments. 4 (24m 22s): I'm 37 now. And I always have my moments. I have struggled the same thing. So don't, don't worry about it. Yeah. 6 (24m 30s): But one of the coping things that's helped me the most is writing. 4 (24m 35s): Oh, that's probably therapeutic for you. I would imagine. 6 (24m 37s): So sir. So therapeutic, like anytime I'll have like a feeling, I'm just like, oh my God, where's my phone. And your writing, my notes are like, I'll be driving. And I'm like, Hey, Siri, open my notes and write blah-blah-blah. 4 (24m 47s): Oh, that's smart. 6 (24m 49s): And then that's how, like a lot of my songs are born. I'll like, go, I'll look after I like stopped driving. Cause like that's not safe. Don't want to do 4 (24m 58s): That. 6 (25m 1s): Yeah. Don't, don't write music while driving kids, if you're going to use Siri. So like, after that, I'll like, see the idea. And sometimes she kind of butchers it, but like fix a little bit and add to it. Because like, if I, if I have like, I'll have the feeling and then sometimes I could forget it. But once I read it again, it'll open it back up. I'll write like a little brief there. And then next session I have all before the session, I always go into my notes. I have fat, tens of thousands of notes on my phone. 4 (25m 33s): Wow. 6 (25m 34s): And I like organize them, like by things I'm feeling right now. And I never delete old ideas because 4 (25m 41s): Smart idea 6 (25m 44s): What the concept I like. That's definitely happened to me. I'm like go back to an old concept or like a word that I wrote down. I'm like, it's a cool word. But it just, wasn't something that hit at that moment. 4 (25m 57s): Now isn't the time. Wow. 6 (25m 59s): Four sessions I pick about three or four ideas and then we pick the vibe or whatever and then talk about them. And my favorite thing to do is see what idea out of like those couple of people buy with the most. And then we usually use that as like the liftoff. 4 (26m 15s): Awesome. So when you go into a songwriting session, I'm not a songwriter, but I enjoy talking to them. So you go into a session, you're like, okay, I'm gonna go through my notes. I have, you know, this idea, this idea and this idea. And then you walk in, you meet, say they're new people, right? They're like, oh, Hey, I'm Adam or I'm blah, blah, blah. And then they just go, what do you want to write about? Is that kinda like set the stage? Like how does that work? I'm always surprised 6 (26m 38s): It is different sometimes with other writers. But generally the way I always write is I'll come in with like song inspiration, like, okay. So today I want to write 7 (26m 48s): CIO CS soup, five I Tez SW to, to get these contracts are just a few of the many federal contracts, connection, public sector solutions supports connections. It hardware, software and services for federal agencies are budget friendly and delivered with exceptional customer service, easing procurement challenges and day to day frustrations, connection, public sector solutions, guiding the connection between people and technology. Learn more at connection.com/fed contracts. 6 (27m 18s): Like, I don't know if I can curse on here, like, Okay. So like today I want to write a fuck you song about something like that. So I have the kind of musical inspiration in my head. I'm like, okay, I want something like, sometimes I'll bring in a song that I'm an artist I love. And I'm like, I want it to be in this lane, this vibe. Okay. So we'll go with that. And then we'll start picking beats and chords for things that, you know, hit. And once we've got a little something, we start talking about the idea. So, you know, we're talking about an idea. We have, you know, producer working on that as the same time, whether he's also the writer or, or she, and so then we're working on at the same time. 6 (28m 3s): And as the song starts to build, we'll start like putting into our phones and like voice memos, like little melees that we're hearing could be for verse chorus, pre whatever. And then whatever we feel like is the most solid melody for whatever part. And like we could fit in a few words that were, we've been thinking about. And usually we'll like talk about the idea and like get a few other, you know, like sentences or like go into depth about whatever it is. But then we'll try and start fitting a few of those things. And with that melody, and that's kind of how that usually works and then go through it. 4 (28m 46s): And with like speaking to the new record, like working with Sophie Simmons, like, was she somebody that came to you and was like, cause an executive, explain her role as executive producer, does she kind of like oversee the whole, the whole project or, and then how does you, how do you guys get in contact and how does this whole thing kind of unfold? 6 (29m 5s): So I DMD Sophie actually on Instagram because I loved her work and I love to writing. And I was like, yo, like if she responds amazing, if she doesn't like, all right, I get it. And she responded and I'm like, oh my God. And she gave me a chance. Our first session together was actually in April. I think it was probably April. I have it in my phone. I think it was probably like April 18th, something like that. 4 (29m 34s): So like a year ago, 6 (29m 35s): Almost exactly a year ago, we met for the first time I had DMD her, I believe in November or December. And this was like the first time we were able to get in to a session together in person and 4 (29m 46s): She respond pretty quickly. 6 (29m 48s): She was, I think she was one of within like next day or two. 4 (29m 51s): Wow. 6 (29m 52s): And I remember like opening my games and I was like, oh my God, she responded. And so we started writing a song and from the second we started writing, I was like, oh my God, she's the most incredible writer. And she just got me from the second. I started talking about what I wanted to write about. She understood it and understood me so quickly, which was the most amazing thing because it's like, you know, writing with someone sometimes like the message gets a little bit lost because other people have different interpretations of your idea. And then it kind of gets sweeter a little bit. And so she just got it, like hit the nail on the head with exactly what I was saying. 6 (30m 36s): And like, we were kind of just in sync and I was like, yo, like this chick gets me. And then I was like, I need more sessions with her. I remember like telling my mom at the time. I was like, yo, like she's, she's it. I remember like we were contacting her managers to get more sessions. And after a little bit, I was like, I knew I was going to put out an EAP at some point in the near future. And I was like, she needs to help me with it because I was like, that's the best song I've ever written. That's a song I feel most connected to. 4 (31m 13s): Did it make the record? 6 (31m 15s): It is not on the record actually. Okay. 4 (31m 17s): Did you ever put it out? 6 (31m 18s): No, it is not out. 4 (31m 19s): Oh wow. 6 (31m 21s): I probably won't ever see the light of day, 4 (31m 23s): But I haven't put out. Okay. 6 (31m 25s): It's called the easy if I hated you. But yeah, that song is really gonna, we're going to see the light of day, but it's a great song, But it's just not like the music I'm putting out right now. And so then we just started working together and a lot of the sessions were over zoom and she set up sessions with all these amazing producers on every different continent. Like I was working with people in Sweden, people in London, people here like people in New York, like everyone was all over the place. And this was like still during like COVID times ish. So the first couple of sessions were definitely in like a zoom setting. 6 (32m 12s): It was weird, but it just kind of worked, but it was definitely weird at first. And then you kinda like get the hang of it 4 (32m 20s): And then are you cutting the vocal at your house or something like, how did that all work? 6 (32m 25s): So the first song that made it onto the EMP that we wrote together was Wonderland 4 (32m 34s): Is 6 (32m 34s): The first one. 4 (32m 35s): And it has like, has that really cool? Like Iran? It reminds me of like 6 (32m 40s): Alison 4 (32m 41s): Or yeah, no. Yeah. The lyrical. Yeah. But like the lullaby, it has like that last child, 6 (32m 47s): Like, 4 (32m 47s): Like a 6 (32m 48s): Jewelry box, 4 (32m 49s): Right. A jewelry box. That's what I was trying to go for. Yes. That's cool. That's a really cool song. 6 (32m 55s): Thank you. It was so we wrote that over zoom and then the amazing producer, Mike <inaudible> who I love. He also produced, never have I ever, 4 (33m 7s): Oh really? Okay. 6 (33m 8s): He's phenomenal. I love him. And so I went into his place and we recorded it there. So that was the first song that made it on the album that we recorded. 4 (33m 19s): Okay. And sh and she was pretty, she was kind of helping you over zoom and then you had the like lyrics or whatever in the melodies and you went and sang in his studio. 6 (33m 28s): Yeah, I think she was probably in like Sweden at the time. So 4 (33m 32s): Yeah. I think he lived in the UK or lived in the, I remember, I think I interviewed her and she might've been, she traveled like London or something. I can't remember. Yeah, 6 (33m 41s): Totally. She travels a lot. 4 (33m 42s): Okay. 6 (33m 43s): So 4 (33m 44s): Wow. 6 (33m 45s): I recorded it with Mike. 4 (33m 47s): Okay. And then how long, how many sessions do, does it, I mean, it must've been a handful of sessions, right. To write the record. 6 (33m 54s): Definitely. I, there were at least 20 other songs that we had written that just didn't make it. 4 (34m 0s): Okay. And how do you narrow down? What became the six for the EAP? 6 (34m 7s): So once we started writing them, there was a song that we wrote. The first one that I fell in love with was obviously Wonderland. But then it moved over into like a little bit of Rocky ish by, 4 (34m 20s): Yeah. There's definitely some, yeah, some punk ish. 6 (34m 24s): Yeah. The first one was LeBron psychopath and it was like, we wrote that and like I heard it, I was like, yo, we need to have more songs like this. And I felt like that was just super me. Cause that was also music I loved in general. Like I'd listened to like Avril Levine vibes the best. 4 (34m 43s): And I can hear that. 6 (34m 46s): So as soon as we did that, we kind of changed gears a little bit. So after that one came rap and like that Rocky world that like pop rock. And so that's kind of how that happened. And then I, I went through a little breakup of my long distance relationship right before my birthday, which has never had they ever. 4 (35m 11s): Is that the one that's the one with the piano? Yeah. I love that song. That's a great song. It's like 6 (35m 17s): A song I cried recording and writing 4 (35m 19s): Really. Wow. That's a great song. And it, it, it fits on the record for sure. It just doesn't sound like any of the other songs on the record. 6 (35m 28s): Totally. Which is what I thought was really fun about it because conceptually it fit in with, you know, kind of the vibes of the concept, The shot to make like a perfect body of work that we're all like fluid, but sonically, it was definitely a little bit different. And I was just like, I, it happened like two days before that session and I was, I was a mess and I was so sad. And so I walked in and I started telling them the story. And we're like, I remember Sophie being like, okay, well I know what we're writing about today. And we started writing and then when I was going to record, I was like, oh my God, I'm going to cry. 6 (36m 13s): And then I just remember, like they just made it so comfortable and amazing where I was like, I remember like a tear dripping down my face. And I was like, guys, like, good, this is so sad. And I remember Sophie sitting like right behind me on the couch being like, I'd come give you a hug, but your, you just sound so amazing right now. So please just keep going. Just keep going. Okay. Okay. So like at the end of the song, you can kind of hear that I'm like beat together is the last 4 (36m 42s): To go back and listen to it and see what I can catch it. 6 (36m 46s): Yeah. So the last little chunk, I was definitely a little emotional. 4 (36m 51s): Oh, wow. Okay. And I'm, I'm curious cause I have a press release for you and the EAP track listing is different than what is on your Spotify. And was that something that you guys hadn't solidified yet? Or were those just the songs or did you guys, or did you go back and kind of rearrange how the record was going to sound like sonically through? 6 (37m 16s): So the order on Spotify is the order we had talked about and like the whole, it was like when we discussed or it was always that. 4 (37m 25s): Oh, okay. 6 (37m 27s): So that we also did have a different AP name, like previously, which I don't think I had said before, but I'm not going to say the title because I think I want the title to meet the name of my album. 4 (37m 41s): Okay. So Yeah, cause the, the EAP, it doesn't have the name. It just has, it's still set. It's still not that girl though on their posts with these I have, but the first song is lover and psychopath, then it goes never have I ever, not that girl, Pete to a personal Wonderland. Was that just the order that you 6 (37m 56s): Released? 4 (37m 58s): That's what I thought. Okay. 6 (37m 59s): And then on like Spotify it's Wonderland. 4 (38m 3s): Yeah. It's how you, how you wanted the record sonically to sound in that order. Gotcha. Very cool. Yeah. 6 (38m 11s): Yeah. So then not that girl, the title of the EAP was the last song we wrote actually. 4 (38m 15s): Oh really? 6 (38m 17s): And we literally wrote that like two months ago. 4 (38m 21s): Wow. So that's a really, 6 (38m 24s): Yeah, like super new. And as soon as I wrote, we wrote that song. I was like, this is the title new I actually, maybe even a month ago. I don't even know. It was very, very recently, but the song just kind of, I knew I wanted to write something like that because I am, I don't know if you've heard the song, but 4 (38m 47s): No, I have, I've heard the whole record. 6 (38m 48s): Yeah. Well thank you. So the song really just describes, you know, me as a person, I'm not the girl, I'm not the girl that's going to go sleep around and party and you know, do drugs and, 4 (38m 60s): And the bathroom is the first lines on the record yet. Alright. 6 (39m 5s): Get high in the bathroom line, 4 (39m 6s): Get high in the bathroom line. That's what it was 6 (39m 9s): Like. It's like get high in the bathroom line, man. That's nothing like me. And like, if that's what you do go for it, like you do you, and there's no shame in any of that. I mean, like, obviously you don't do illegal drugs cause like, you know, you want to be alive, but, 4 (39m 26s): But I 6 (39m 26s): Don't don't it. But if that's 4 (39m 28s): What you 6 (39m 30s): Like and no, like no shade or anything, but that's just not who I am as a person. And I had noticed like the real story is how it went is I was at a club when I was a friend and she went home with a random guy. She met that night and I went home to my Uber alone and I was like, man, I'm not that girl. Like I could never do that. Even if I tried, I just look funny or be awkward or fuck it up. And I was just like, I'm not that girl. And I'm like, I'm not the girl that's going to go do that. I'm not the girl who's going to do this. And I was like, and I kind of wanted to be, because I was like, I feel so different from, you know, my friends and like what's popular. 6 (40m 11s): And like girls, my age, like this is kind of what they usually do. Sure. I was just not able to do that. And I, I had wanted to theoretically, but I, that was the night where I was like, but that's who I am. And like, that's okay because I'm not that way. And that's the way I am and you know, that's okay. I love being this way. Mimi. 4 (40m 33s): I love that. Cause I'm sure it's a stereotypical thing that you get embedded. You get stereotyped and all that other crap all the time. And you're like, no, no, no, no. Let me play a song. Yeah. 6 (40m 47s): I'm like, I'm like awkward and shy, which is, people are always like, you're shy. I'm like, oh my God. I'm so shy. Anything that doesn't have anything to do with music? I'm like, hi, I'm Casey. Nice to meet you. 4 (40m 58s): I would've never guessed that you're shy. 6 (41m 0s): Yeah. And even as a little girl, I was too, but anything with music, I'm like, hello, how are you? 4 (41m 8s): That's your element? You can you feel like comfortable talking about it all? Or 6 (41m 11s): I guess so I'd always been like, I know what I'm doing. I can back it up. I can talk about it. I can sing if someone's like saying I'll sing, but just in like social settings, I also didn't go to high school. I was homeschooled in high school through because of my anxiety and because of music, 4 (41m 27s): I was going to say, it probably comes back here. Anxiety also. 6 (41m 30s): Oh yeah. No. Everything in my life comes back to anxiety. 4 (41m 33s): Yeah. Same with me. I mean, I am such an introverted person. Like I could do this because it's, again, something I'm used to doing. And like I did radio for 17 years because I could just talk to myself in a room with nobody around and I didn't have to interact with people. But yeah. Like when it goes to like going out, like even at shows and stuff, I'm like, okay, yeah. 6 (41m 55s): And social events, I'm just like, hi. 4 (41m 58s): Right, right. I'll just be over here being quiet. And people think I'm like being a Dick and I'm like, no, I'm just not. Yeah. 6 (42m 4s): I'm just like, I'm going to say something weird and people are gonna look at me funny. And then 4 (42m 9s): I'm going to think about it. I'm going to, it's going to be really in my head, like for the rest of the day and I'm going to go home and like, 6 (42m 16s): Yeah, 4 (42m 16s): Like that person doesn't like me. I shouldn't have said that stupid thing. And then like if you came to them and they'd probably be like, what are you saying? I don't even remember what you're talking about. 6 (42m 24s): I remember this is like, I go to therapy every week for 10 years. And she's like my best friend. I love her. And one of the first things that like really stuck with me that I was learning as she's like, people don't care about you as much as you think they do on a mean way, but they're not going to remember this one little sentence. You said that you going to remember, Cause they're paying attention, but that's not changing their life. 4 (42m 51s): Right. They just forgot about it. Or like, it didn't it, they heard it. They didn't register enough to where they're going to like retain that in their brain 6 (42m 58s): Or it wasn't even that weird. It's just your head. 4 (43m 1s): Right. 6 (43m 2s): But that was like one of the first things where I was like, really? And she was like, trust me. And like, every time something happens where I'm like, you know, when you're like at a movie theater or whatever, and they're like, enjoy your movie. And you're like, you too. I hate that. First of all. But like, people really say that to them all the time. Like, they're not gonna remember just you being like, oh, enjoy your movie. And they're not gonna be like, oh, she's so rude. She told me to enjoy my movie. 4 (43m 27s): Right, right, right. 6 (43m 29s): You're going to think about it, but they're not, 4 (43m 31s): You're going to end. You're going to think about it. Like, oh, I shouldn't have said that. Like for the next three days, until you, something else happens that you can realize 6 (43m 38s): That thing happens. Then that's where 4 (43m 41s): I heard this. Somebody told me it's nobody cares. You're like, I don't care. What, how did it go? It's like something along the lines of like, people don't care. 6 (43m 51s): No one cares as much as you think they do 4 (43m 54s): Know. But it's like, almost like I don't care about myself, but I'm all I think about something like something, something along those lines or I can't think of it. All that. Yeah. You can write that one down. Take that one. 6 (44m 4s): Not even, I'm not even saying you mind if I write that down, What did you just say? 4 (44m 10s): I said, I don't like myself, but I'm all I think about. 6 (44m 16s): Okay, 4 (44m 16s): Cool. All right. That's going to be your next song. Writing credit. Animalistic. Thank you very much. Wrote my first song today. Yeah. Something along like you could change it, but that's essentially, that's what I've heard before. I think I manipulated a bit. So writing credit cards, Just kidding 6 (44m 38s): The song when it's done. 4 (44m 39s): Amazing. I would love to hear it. That's funny. But yeah, it's the same thing as no one cares, but you care and it's going to bother you for the rest of the day. But Anyway, so she executive produces your record. Is that mean that she's putting it out or just that she kind of was overseeing the entire project? 6 (44m 59s): I never received the entire project and helps me decide and writes with me and you know, talks and kind of, you know, we make this like over full circle plan where it's like, I want the album to be a part of this genre specifically and these types of concepts. And I want it to get the point across blah-blah-blah and to fit all the music and under one umbrella. And I felt like not that girl really did. So. 4 (45m 31s): And so this concept or the name and title and the song was not, you sort of bought a couple of months ago? 6 (45m 37s): Not even a couple. It was like maybe one and a half. 4 (45m 40s): Oh, wow. So then you're like, okay, I got it. This is the song. I want this to be the record. And then pretty quickly you put it out the whole thing out. 6 (45m 48s): Yeah, no, it was, it, it was kind of a crazy experience of that. And I just remember, I was like, I don't want this to be the AP title when I changed it. And we kind of discussed, like, I feel like I have a different little vision for it. And she was like, okay, like, let's work on that. Make sure we know what we want and then go do it. We had a couple more sessions and take it personal. Also we, I recently wrote, take a personal, we wrote in January. 4 (46m 20s): Oh, interesting. Okay. 6 (46m 22s): So you wrote that January 18th. 4 (46m 24s): Wow. 6 (46m 25s): And then recorded it like February 2nd 4 (46m 29s): And then it was just, okay. Let's put the record out as soon as we can. No, no sense to hold it 6 (46m 34s): Immediately. We loved that song and I felt like that really fit in with the rock poppy angry vibe. 4 (46m 42s): Sure. 6 (46m 43s): That's my fuck you song. 4 (46m 45s): I love it. I think it's, I mean the whole record is awesome. And then how do you land this tour with Jesse McCartney? 6 (46m 51s): So, well, I'm very excited. Jessie was actually my very first crush growing up. 4 (46m 57s): Oh, that's awesome. Does he know that? 6 (46m 59s): Oh no. When I first met him, I, I told him like the first like couple of sentences. I did not mean to say it that soon. It just kind of 4 (47m 8s): Have a crush on you. And like, by 6 (47m 9s): The way, I was four. That's not, but He like perceived it. Someone was like, oh my God, that's so sweet. I'm so glad you're here. First that like the second I said it, I'm like, oh my God, Casey, just fucking ruined it. He's not gonna want to hang out with you anymore. 4 (47m 23s): And then you just thought about that for the next three days. 6 (47m 26s): That's the nicest guy like I've ever met and he's incredibly talented. And just like the day we met, like he just gave me so many tips and we just really connected. And I was like, oh my God, like, this is amazing. And 4 (47m 43s): So, but like, how did the 6 (47m 47s): Torah come about? 4 (47m 47s): Yeah. Like how did the tour and everything come out? 6 (47m 49s): So this guy, so this is a really crazy stories at the beginning of COVID I released a song called make me hate you and my friend, I filmed a little like music video sitting on the corner of my little brother's room with pink hue, lights on just singing the song. And my friend that edited it PO his parents posted it on their Facebook. And this guy that his dad went to college with was like, yo, like, can I have her email or her number? And my friend texts and was like, yo, can I give your number to this guy? And I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever. So we started talking, turns out he married when my mom's childhood friends and we just became really close and started to talking. 6 (48m 34s): And he used to manage Jesse when Jesse was little. 4 (48m 38s): Wow. 6 (48m 39s): Jesse, I guess was looking for another opener. And he was like, would you be interested in opening for Jesse? And I was like, hell yes. And so then I guess like he sent my music to Jesse and his team and they liked it. 4 (48m 58s): That's incredible. What was that news like when you get it like, oh, 6 (49m 3s): I cried. I was like, okay, like this is frailties and the 12 originally supposed to be in November, but it got because of, 4 (49m 14s): Oh sure. Was it November 21 or was it recently? 21. Okay. But it just, everything kind of got shifted. 6 (49m 21s): Yeah. Going into the winter and kind of got so we pushed it until I leave on the first. 4 (49m 30s): Wow. Was that a Saturday? 6 (49m 33s): The Sunday, 4 (49m 33s): Sunday. And is the first ones the first show? The second or is it, is it on the, it's on the third word? 6 (49m 40s): Cincinnati. 4 (49m 41s): Okay. Cincinnati is the first day I've boosted Nashville and you're not coming here. So I see. 6 (49m 45s): Oh, I'm so sad. I'm not going to national. That was like one of the places I really wanted to go. 4 (49m 51s): I'm just kidding. But yeah, I know you should play here. I did see that. Cause I'm looking at the shore. I'm like, oh, oh, they're not coming to Nashville and you're not playing San Diego either. I noticed 6 (50m 2s): I get it. We're playing San Fran and LA. 4 (50m 5s): Yeah. I love San Francisco. I lived there for a bit too. And you're playing the Wiltern in LA. That's huge. 6 (50m 11s): I'm really excited. 4 (50m 12s): I'm sure you probably have to show us our growing up. 6 (50m 14s): Oh yeah. I definitely have. And then in New York, we're playing at urban Plaza, which is obviously legendary and then also on long island, my whole family's from New York. So that's really special and they get to all come and see it. 4 (50m 26s): That's cool. That's really cool. And you're doing wow. So you're doing a huge tour for your first tour. 6 (50m 32s): Big tour. Yeah. 4 (50m 34s): Yeah. There's I mean, you're going to be gone from may all the way through the end of June. Like that's 6 (50m 39s): Crazy. 4 (50m 41s): And you're playing emails in Austin. That's a cool venue as well. 6 (50m 43s): It wasn't really. Yeah. Everyone's been telling me all the venues are incredible on this tour. And I was like, okay, great. 4 (50m 51s): Brooklyn bowl and Philly. Yeah. There's a Brooklyn bowl here in Nashville. That's where, yeah. And there's one in New York too. I think obviously Brooklyn. Yeah. Yeah. Philly and Nashville. Maybe another one. I don't know somebody is going to be like yelling. Yeah. That's 6 (51m 7s): On the tour. Like obviously it has a blues has a ton of locations, but that was actually where I saw Hillary at the house of blues. It's not here anymore in LA. 4 (51m 15s): Yeah. It's an Anaheim. 6 (51m 17s): Yeah. There's one in Anaheim. It was the one that I went to. I want to say it was on sunset, right on five sunset strip. 4 (51m 23s): Yeah. And they moved it and then it was like next to, or it was, it's still, it 6 (51m 27s): Always had one there. I 4 (51m 28s): Was there two. Okay. Maybe I'm wrong too. We might like reopened it. Yeah. Who knows 6 (51m 34s): Both. Right. But there's definitely a ton of them all over. And also there's one called the Fillmore. That's all over as well. 4 (51m 41s): Yeah. There's a, there's a film in San Francisco, but you're playing a knob hill. 6 (51m 47s): Sure. 4 (51m 48s): So that's awesome. Well, this is cool. Congratulations to the tour, the records rad. And you said you have an album. Is that something that you're going to get to you working with Sophie with 6 (52m 0s): That has not even started yet? That's just, 4 (52m 2s): You just have the name, you just have the name. 6 (52m 5s): I just have the name because I've wanted to name a body of work this for as long as I can remember. 4 (52m 10s): Okay. Well, awesome. Congratulations. Good luck on the tour and everything else. That's going to be huge. And I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much. 6 (52m 19s): Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I had a blast. 4 (52m 22s): Awesome. Thank you. I have one more quick question. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists. 6 (52m 29s): Oh, 100%. Okay. So number one, be honest with your feelings because nothing holds you back. Like not being honest and open and the way you connect with people the most is being honest and open sharing your experiences because everyone always feel so alone. And no matter what you're thinking like, oh, I'm going through this alone. Everybody out of the billions of people in this world, at least one person has the same feelings as you do. And if you can help them one person, then that's amazing. I also highly recommended playing an instrument because it helps.