Interview with Electric Enemy

2 (2m 27s): Hello. It is Adam. Welcome back to bringing it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Jim and Orlando of the band electric enemy over zoom video. Jim was born and raised in London, England, and he talks about how he got into music. Started off on the drums and quickly moved over to the guitar. He always wrote poetry and ended up putting the poetry together with his guitar playing and started writing songs. From there, he formed a few bands, eventually starting a band that Orlando joined and that band ended up becoming electric enemy. 2 (3m 8s): Orlando was born and raised in Italy, and he moved out to London after he completed law school, he went to school, got his law degree, decided he wanted to take on being a musician. So he moved to London, eventually met Jim and joined his band, which like I said, eventually became electric enemy. They talked about where they were when COVID happened and how during that period, the band was able to land on BBC radio one and have a couple of their songs. Playlisted on Spotify, which helped immensely grow their listeners and fans. And we talk all about their new EAP called the therapy sessions. You can watch our interview with Orlando and Jim on our Facebook page and YouTube channel app bring in a backwards. 2 (3m 52s): It would be awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik TOK at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on Spotify or apple music, it would be so awesome. If you follow us there as well, and hook us up with a five-star review, 3 (4m 9s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 2 (4m 15s): We're bringing it backwards with electric enemy. Awesome. Well, I'm Adam, and this is about you guys and your journey of music and your new EAP. That's coming out as well. We'll talk about that. 4 (4m 26s): Yeah. Thank you so much for having us. 2 (4m 28s): Of course. Thank you. Thank you. So, first off I would just go with, where were you born and raised? We can start with you, Jim, where were you born and raised? 4 (4m 35s): So I was born in London, you know, it's a kingdom and I was raised there as well. And, and I haven't moved an awful lot since I'm not gonna lie. 2 (4m 46s): Really. Are you still there? 4 (4m 48s): Yeah, still in London, I guess. 2 (4m 50s): I believe they're from, from what I hear, I've never been, but a lot of musicians that I've chatted with that live around in UK, other parts will go there cause that's kind of like the place to be. 4 (5m 1s): Exactly. I guess it's kind of like the LA or whatever. Yeah, exactly. The 2 (5m 7s): Exact thing. If you're already living there, it's like, why leave? Yeah, 4 (5m 9s): Exactly. I know a lot of people find that very intense in London, but I just kind of, you know, maybe he's born with it, you know, maybe it's maybe 2 (5m 20s): Right. Well, tell me about growing up there. What was that like? Or were you in the city? 4 (5m 26s): Yeah, yeah. Grew up central London pretty much. And yeah, it was, it was pretty good. I mean, for a long time I thought that the name of my house was London until I was 18 years old. No, until I was about six years old, I was convinced that I just didn't really have a concept of anything. And this was back in the time that John major was prime minister. And naturally I thought that he was prime minister of the world. Of Course. So, yeah, I guess I've learned a little bit more about geography sense. Not an awful lot more, but yeah, but I'm still here. 2 (6m 4s): That's good. That's cool. That is cool. Yeah. I'm from San Diego in California and recently I recently moved to, to Nashville, Tennessee, but there's a similar thing where it's like, well, I'm already here. Like where else am I gonna go? LA was a short drive or a couple hour drive and everything else, but, well, tell me about, what about your Lennar? You're originally from London as well or 5 (6m 29s): No, it's happily. I'm from Italy. 2 (6m 33s): Oh, readily. Yeah. You cut out there for a second, but from a <inaudible> 5 (6m 40s): Sorry, 2 (6m 41s): Are you still living there or did you move to London? 5 (6m 45s): London a few years ago. And then disgracefully. I met Jim and yeah, that's how it all started. 2 (6m 54s): Okay. Well what was it like grew up in, tell me about that. 5 (6m 59s): Well, basically my hometown, like, well, my, my house is basically in front of this medieval castle, so it's, I thought it was normal to grow up in that. So like in Maryland, but it wasn't, especially when you moved to London, when, you know, you have to face with 2 (7m 16s): And medieval castle, was it occupied and what was it like to live across the street from it or across from that? 5 (7m 23s): It wasn't occupied. It used to be, I think it's still haunted, you know, it's, it's full of it's there was a cemetery as well in it and it used to be a boarding school. So 2 (7m 36s): Yeah, 5 (7m 37s): I know. I squids and I think my dad even slept where the dead people were like, because he was staying there. So I, I know this. I wonder if it's true? 4 (7m 50s): Yeah. There's a word for that. 2 (7m 53s): So many. Wait, wait, wait. What's that? Did your dad grew up in the same town that you grew up in village? 5 (7m 58s): Yeah. As well, a different sound, but he was in boarding school, in the castle 2 (8m 3s): Really 4 (8m 6s): Great 5 (8m 8s): Way. That castle used to be many things from the monastery to, you know, like, like the, the, the family, the main powerful family that used to live. It's it's complicated, but I, I just lived there. I thought it was normal a little bit in front of the castle. And then you moved to London and 2 (8m 30s): I think you're going to say like, your, your dad grew up in the village and was in like, as kids that was like, you know, like a Rite of passage, like, okay, who's going to sleep inside the medieval castle. That's haunted. It's going 4 (8m 42s): To lay with the debt. 5 (8m 44s): We'll do that. So we still say, oh, should we go there at night? Because we know everyone in this small village. So it's like, why then you get the keys from someone just go there, have a one to try to switch on the light so I can see it. So there is this, this thing going on that we still, I still need to do. I would like to do it. But yeah. 2 (9m 7s): So you've been in, you've been in there. It sounds like, 5 (9m 11s): Oh yeah. All the time. Like, it's just one of those things. Like as soon as I get back, I need to go and have a one that say hi to the skeleton. Like there are, there are some like, like that people that like, you can see the skeletons and everything, but if, 2 (9m 26s): Oh my gosh, have you been there, Jim? Have you been to him to tell him? 4 (9m 31s): No. No, I haven't. I'm not sure if I want to anymore. I mean, 2 (9m 35s): You guys should do like a live stream, live stream from there. Something 4 (9m 39s): Like most Han goes pretty standard stuff. He has an outsider what's going on. Oh, 2 (9m 47s): Wow. Okay. That is wow. That's, that's really fascinating. Well, okay. Well, tell me, how did you get the music across from this crazy medieval castle? How do you get into music? 5 (9m 58s): Yeah, well, we got bullets. Like, we go really bold because you know, like it's not like living in London where everything is, is, Hey, you know, you can go out and, you know, and, and, and see people playing all kinds of music. You know, we would just bowled with my friends. So we started this, this little band and we didn't know how to play. So we kind of just started that way. And 2 (10m 25s): What did you play? Like, what was the first thing you play? 5 (10m 29s): I mean, when I started it, it was like drums, but I was terrible at that. So I started playing guitar, but it was, it was always like guitar, like mainly, yeah. 2 (10m 39s): Okay. Good. Sarah, how old were you when you started guitar? 5 (10m 42s): I was 11, something like that. 11 and everyone was like older than me, so I was like, you know, little kid, but Yeah, we had, we had this been before, even before we could actually be able to play like I, as in the house play any golds. I just got this guitar from someone and yeah, it was it. 2 (11m 7s): Wow. Okay. What about you, Jim? How did you get the music? I mean, obviously you must be, you're probably surrounded in London by music. 4 (11m 16s): Yeah. Yeah. Basically when I was a kid, I used to write a lot of poetry. I was a bit of an introspective. It's just kind of like, what is like, what is the point of life? I'm eight years old. And basically I kind of, I always loved music and you know, one of my first albums was this blues brothers, soul sister compilation thing. And I'd like John Lee hooker and muddy waters and like all of the greats. And I loved all of that loved Otis Redding and everything. And I loved the Beatles and that was basically my parents played in the car and it was the kind of stuff that really kind of sunk in and then naturally loved harmonizing. 4 (12m 1s): I saw myself the drums when I was 10, started off on pots and pans and stuff. And then I kind of thought this is good, but I kind of want to ex you know, express a little more, no shade to any drummers out there, but I just, yeah, I ended up getting a guitar when I was, I think it was 13 and I just kind of taught myself over the summer, learns a couple of songs. I think nights in white satin was one of them by the moody blues. And yeah, I just decided that, oh, I can do poetry. I can strum a chord really badly. 4 (12m 42s): Let's see, I guess. And then, you know, the songwriting came and that's kind of, I think, before anything else even before being like a singer or a guitarist. Yeah. I think I'm a songwriter first and foremost. 2 (12m 57s): And with that, did you start a band also or do you 4 (13m 0s): Oh yeah. Oh, okay. Very interesting bands. I mean, I did a lot of the acoustic thing, you know, the rites of passage, you know, just like 2 (13m 11s): You, 4 (13m 12s): Just me. Yeah. You know, the kind of poem, frat 72 And you know, the kind of what you can tell me, Alonda, what's it called when you do that shape with your hands? Like the wonderful thing. So that these two never changed. 2 (13m 25s): Oh, like come back to him court and then you kinda, yeah. You just, 4 (13m 30s): Yeah. Not extra thingy. I think it's called the thing in the jig. Basically. 2 (13m 34s): I think that's a technical term. That 4 (13m 36s): Is the technical term. And it's the, the, who's my what set. And basically I wrote a lot of just awful songs, really bad. And eventually one of them was okay, where I didn't rhyme train with pain or rain. Okay. And then I set up a band called seven shades of gray, which was pretty cool. 2 (14m 1s): Wow. Yeah. That's before its time before what's the other, what's the movie 4 (14m 5s): 50 shades, 2 (14m 6s): Two shades of gray. And it was a 4 (14m 9s): Different thing, You know, early teens, there was, there was no bondage at that time. 2 (14m 16s): Okay. And you guys just weren't aware of it. 4 (14m 19s): Yeah. Probably. Do you know what? I think it was more of the mental bondage in the fact that none of us really wanted to be there. Then I eventually made another band called higher control, which was equally disorganized. I kind of went through a few things that another band called crystal seagulls. We actually went somewhere during the kind of indie time when everyone was just kind of doing what the cooks were doing. So we did that. 2 (14m 50s): And when you say when somewhere, did you guys like get a deal or were you touring or 4 (14m 54s): So we did, we did do a tour. We did a tour with rival sons. 2 (14m 60s): Oh really? 4 (15m 1s): Okay. Yeah. And we kind of played Redding and leads and all of the big kind of festivals. Oh 2 (15m 6s): Yeah. You guys did something. That's cool. Yeah, 4 (15m 8s): We actually did. But we were literally spinal tap. So every opportunity that came our way, we were just like, Hmm, this is a really good opportunity. How can we self-sabotage without realizing it. And then eventually after learning all of those lessons, I set up a band called duke wolves. Orlando was the lead guitarist. He joined that band at first. He didn't want to join. And then yeah, we just kind of went on and professionalism ensued. And since then, yeah, we, we became electric enemy when we got signed up and got a management contract and yeah, it's been pretty cool ever since. 4 (15m 54s): Really 2 (15m 55s): Sure. So, okay. Orlando back to you, then you move to London and eventually meet Jim and you joined the band that he was just talking about. But prior to that, like what took you to London? 5 (16m 6s): I just decided to just leave everything I was doing. I started in law before it was doing. Yeah. So I, I finished my degree and I thought, fuck it. Let's ruin my life. Joining goodbye. 2 (16m 22s): Wait a minute. Did you get up? You got a degree in law, you have a, your law degree and you got it while you're in Italy still. And then usually 0 (16m 30s): Facebook safety teams protect billions of people each month. They lead the industry in stopping bad actors online. That's because they've invested more than $13 billion in the last five years, quadrupling their safety and security teams to 40,000 people and investing in industry, leading AI technology to enhance safety on their platforms. It's working over the last several months. They've taken action on 1.7 billion fake accounts, 51.7 million violent and graphic posts. 62 million explicit adult posts, 9.3 million drugs and firearms sales posts, but working to reduce harmful and elicit content on their platforms is never done. 0 (17m 15s): Keeping your feeds safe will continue to be everyone's priority at Facebook. Learn more about how they're helping people connect and share safely at about.fb.com/safety, Facebook safety teams protect billions of people each month. They lead the industry in stopping bad actors online. That's because they've invested more than $13 billion in the last five years, quadrupling their safety and security teams to 40,000 people and investing in industry leading AI to enhance safety on their platforms. It's working over the last several months. They've taken action on 1.7 billion fake accounts, 51.7 million violent and graphic posts. 0 (18m 3s): 62 million explicit adult posts, 9.3 million drugs and firearms sales posts, but working to reduce harmful and elicit content on their platforms is never done. Keeping your feeds safe will continue to be everyone's priority at Facebook. Learn more about how they're helping people connect and share safely at about.fb.com/safety, Facebook safety teams protect billions of people each month. They lead the industry in stopping bad actors online. That's because they've invested more than $13 billion in the last five years, quadrupling their safety and security teams to 40,000 people and investing in industry leading AI technology to enhance safety on their platforms. 0 (18m 52s): It's working over the last several months. They've taken action on 1.7 billion fake accounts, 51.7 million violent and graphic posts. 62 million explicit adult posts, 9.3 million drugs and firearms sales posts, but working to reduce harmful and elicit content on their platforms is never done. Keeping your feeds safe will continue to be everyone's priority at Facebook. Learn more about how they're helping people connect and share safely at about.fb.com/safety. 5 (19m 31s): Yeah. I studied in, in a city called Peru. It's famous for, you know, the, the mother, you know, I'm on the Amanda Knox case. 6 (19m 40s): Ah, I do. 5 (19m 41s): Okay. Yeah. So that's the, that place is famous for that. And I was studying that and I, I decided to just, I mean, I finished it and then I was like, you know what? I just want to play at his house. So I moved to London and I started like playing with different people. I even went on on a theory. Like I used to play guitar on a ferry with a band that, yeah. Yeah. And then when 6 (20m 10s): Would you guys like to, 5 (20m 13s): Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all the, it was mainly like Motown, but anyway, they, after that, I, I met Jim around. I think it was like that summer when I came back and I thought it was just an alcoholic, but yeah, no, no, no. I'm just kidding. You know, it's because, you know, in England, when you meet up with someone, there's always like going for a drink and that's true. So it was, it was, it was like our first meetings, like the were mainly like a bit boozy. I remember the army. I don't remember. But yeah, I do remember. 5 (20m 53s): I recall, I remember 2 (20m 55s): You recall showing up, but you don't remember. 5 (20m 58s): Yeah. But you know, we'll hop in after that, but, but yeah, no that, yeah, it was, it was, it was fun. Yeah. 2 (21m 6s): Okay. Wait so, well then how did you meet? How did you then meet a gym? Did you Play or something like I had, 5 (21m 17s): Yeah, it was, it was an advert and I, I was a bit disappointed that the wet, the way many people like auditioning and I thought, Hmm, this is not right. So I didn't know. I didn't, I, I wasn't sure about joining the band because it seems to me too easy, you know, when you do something and you think, you know, oh, that's like, but yeah, no, it was, it was a different band back back then. Nothing. It was just me and Jen, like the original, I mean, well, it remained 2 (21m 58s): My, I'm not sure anyone 5 (22m 3s): Different people. 2 (22m 4s): Okay. 5 (22m 5s): Yeah. 2 (22m 6s): Yeah. Real quick onto your, and just cause I'm curious. Yeah. Cause the Amanda Knox thing was huge here obviously. Cause she was from like Seattle area or something. What a bizarre thing. Like, do you remember like, were you there when all that was happening? Like do you yeah. And I'm just kidding. This is totally not on the topic, but I'm just fascinated because I've seen all the documentaries on it. And I remember when it's happening, everybody was like, oh my gosh, she's got framed. And, but then you start hearing all this stuff and you're like, wow. You're like, I dunno too much stuff that you just, she smoked some weed, like forgot everything and her the whole day. It's like, cause you know, when the, you, 5 (22m 51s): I mean there is, there is a lot. Yeah. But I remember, I remember the morning when it happened, because I had, I had a lesson, you know, unions. And I remember the, this page, the, the professor made, which was, you know, like one of those things, they, they, they love to do those kinds of just theatrical lessons, you know, especially in this, you know, but, but I remember, I remember I used to have a calf that it was a shitty car, but I used to talk where, where the, where the house, you know, where the famous among the Knox house, because no one would park there and, and we're gonna have a spot about yeah, no, because no, because <inaudible> is a very dark Stacey. 5 (23m 41s): Cause it's like, it's, it's, it's famous for drugs. It's famous for core gangs, you know, and stuff like that as well. 4 (23m 50s): Well, have you seen that film gangs of Perujia it's with <inaudible> 7 (24m 2s): Yeah. 2 (24m 15s): Oh, well she's best she's out now. Apparently she's just living her living the best life in Seattle. 5 (24m 21s): Yeah. I think, I think the other guy IDB Italian guy, I think he was on Tinder and someone, someone, someone took a screenshot of the description and it was hilarious. Like, like, oh, I'm a very, you know, I don't do drugs. I'm I'm a very serious person. I don't party. I just, and everyone was like, 7 (24m 50s): Yeah. 2 (24m 54s): Did he search? And he served jail time too. Right? They both did. 5 (24m 57s): Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There is a lot of politics involved in that case. I remember. I don't think we want to go that route. There is, there is a lot of, you know, there is, you know, Italian Freemasonry involved. There is Hillary Clinton's been involved in this. 2 (25m 17s): I didn't know it got that far. I knew that. Right. Cause who was the one guy that was shown on TV from, you would know? I don't remember. But he was like, really for like, you know, getting her like she, like, she was like a stickler for like she's never getting out. 7 (25m 32s): Was that 4 (25m 33s): The only guy, the one who was a bit of a showman for the cameras and that 2 (25m 37s): Yes. I forgot his name though, but yeah, 4 (25m 41s): Detective, 2 (25m 43s): But yeah. Yeah. Not to stay on that topic, but yeah, that that's wild. Like, so I didn't realize it was like, so the town wasn't in all the, the nicest place to be hanging out then I guess for the time period, 5 (26m 0s): It's famous for like foreign cultures. So if you go there, there is a lot of, it's a melting pot of, of different other the same time there is. I mean, there used to be like, there used to be drugs, you know? I remember gangs pretty neat, but yeah. 2 (26m 26s): Okay. So you went to cut, you were going to sit over there, 7 (26m 30s): You used to 2 (26m 31s): Park in their driveway. He ended up getting out to, to London and you end up meeting James and then you guys had another band. And then when that band kind of dissolves, then what what's next? Jim, do you guys decide together like, Hey, let's start another project. 4 (26m 47s): So actually it was a, it was more a development of the band. I think that what we'd done is we'd kind of accumulated over the years, a whole bunch of insight into what you should and shouldn't be doing. And we just decided, because I think that a lot of people in early stage could be very attached to their name, but rather than be attached to our name and at the time our, you know, 100 followers or whatever it was, we just kind of thought we know what we're doing now let's start this fresh and let's do this. Right. So that's essentially what happened. So we didn't actually change members at the time or anything like that. 4 (27m 28s): So it was at that point, it was myself, Orlando, Tom on drums and sighs on bass. Who's no longer in the band, but yeah. Now, now we've got someone called you and who's, Who's a good light. 5 (27m 46s): Someone called you. And We got someone just call you just kidding. 4 (27m 54s): It's going to be cold something. 2 (27m 58s): He's probably been called worse. Yeah. Okay. So the bank, so now, okay then its name change electric academy. And you said you guys ended up getting like management and everything. Like what was kind of the first, you know, step in the, you know, the first, I guess, success you had with the ban. 4 (28m 23s): So I think that once we'd kind of got together with them, we ended up kind of due to a lot of the groundwork which had already laid and some of the people we kept on and the new management, we played the main stage at the isle of white festival. Wow. Which was really cool. So we opened it up and you know, we've got like a joke inside the band that we were playing on. I think it was the Sunday morning and Noel Gallagher headlines on the Saturday night. So basically Noel Gallagher supported her. 2 (28m 58s): That's amazing. 4 (28m 59s): So, you know, that was, that was pretty cool. 2 (29m 4s): That's a huge festival. I mean, to be on a main stage to now, I would imagine it's mold multiple stages. Right. Obviously, then 4 (29m 11s): There's quite a few. So yeah, The main stage, the big top, which is the kind of one down, but which is still, you get a lot of amazing bands playing in there. But then after that, there are all sorts of other stages like dance, tents and stuff, but it's mainly, I'd say main stage picked up is where the bigger acts would play 2 (29m 31s): And then to be able to open on the, I mean, to be able to just be on that stage. That's so cool. 4 (29m 36s): That's pretty cool. And I think that for I'm very grateful for the fact that we've all in our own ways been doing this for a long time, because I think that had we not, it would be a very overwhelming experience, but the fact that, you know, we've all, we've got our sucks, you know, we've done the work, right. It was, it was just great. And I think that we really enjoyed every minute of it and kind of we knew to look up and actually take in the moment that was happening, which is such a hard thing to do. So actually just be aware of the present situation that you're in and staff. This is really cool. And then, yeah, we also had an amazing backstage and being the cool people that we are brought a backpack and put everything inside the backpack that we could Literally everything. 4 (30m 31s): And 2 (30m 33s): Some examples of things that you were able to take from the back and put on the backpack. 4 (30m 37s): Well, there was an assortment of teas. I was quite pleased with herbal teas. There was a lot of beer insider and stuff like that because we decided essentially every time that we hit like a new milestone of some description, we like to kind of have a bit of a party and, you know, enjoy ourselves and stuff like that. 2 (30m 60s): Oh, okay. Well this, this is good. Now I can ask you. Okay, sorry, go ahead. 4 (31m 6s): Basically. It's kind of like if we do the main stage again, we probably won't do the big celebration that we did that night. 2 (31m 14s): 'cause I already had happened, but what if you're, what if you're a higher up slot on the main stage? What if your fifth to go on? Ooh. Would that be a party? Ooh. 4 (31m 29s): Do 2 (31m 29s): You have 4 (31m 29s): Any, like, 2 (31m 30s): Do you remember getting the poster, like with your name on it? Yeah. I know here, like Coachella is like the thing. Right. And like Coachella line of comes out and there's like the minuscule little font and it kind of goes up and, and like just seeing, I've talked to a lot of artists that were like, you know, just seeing our name on that poster, like blown away. Like I'm sure that had to be a big, big deal. 4 (31m 52s): It really was amazing. Wasn't it? Orlando? And it's just like, I bought a t-shirt I literally bought a t-shirt because I just thought this is really cool and I don't want to, 5 (32m 2s): And I recently saw someone wearing that. T-shirt like the one with our name on it. I remember you remember. I said, everyone, picture this guy, just sitting in a bar. And he had 4 (32m 13s): Been in the back. 5 (32m 16s): That's me. 2 (32m 19s): Do you know who I am? <inaudible> 5 (32m 24s): I actually do. I'm not going to do that. Why not? Well, I know 2 (32m 29s): Now who are you? You know, like what you're wearing my t-shirt. 5 (32m 33s): I mean, the name is so small, but still, you know, it's 4 (32m 37s): Still Smaller and that one, our name wasn't small in that way. 5 (32m 42s): Yeah. It was, it wasn't the main. Yeah. So it wasn't 2 (32m 45s): On the main stage. 5 (32m 47s): It wasn't the main stage yet. 2 (32m 49s): That's so cool. Well, when is the next party? Like what happened? Like you, you know, obviously that was a big party you used to be well, yeah, but I mean like in the, what milestone party was the next time, 5 (33m 1s): I just, I just recall this from Colvin, I think had, does that have some pots? 2 (33m 7s): Oh, you had COVID. I'm so sorry. Are you all right? 5 (33m 10s): You got it. 2 (33m 11s): <inaudible> I'm glad. You're okay, man. 4 (33m 18s): Nice. Actually, I had to do a gig in Sheffield's last week. We were supporting bang, bang Romeo, and yeah, we had to do the gig without Orlando being that he's the lead guitarist. My fingers were twice as tired. We definitely miss them mainly on stage. Not so much. 2 (33m 47s): Well, I'm glad you're covering man. That's that's awful. My son had it to where we we've all had it through our house, but like he had it where he lost his taste and like, he still can't eat like, like certain foods. He doesn't like that. He like, I think Oreos were one. Like he doesn't like Oreos anymore because it just destroyed the taste of Oreos for him. 4 (34m 8s): Oh, well the good news with that is that Medallia who make Oreos treat their workers terribly. 2 (34m 14s): So is that right? Oh, that's good. And now 4 (34m 16s): Good man. 2 (34m 18s): I knew, I knew he liked Oreos before and then, and we thought, yeah, it was weird. Cause it, it took months or almost a month and a half for it to actually come back to where you can take food and then it just like certain things just never came back. So 4 (34m 34s): How old is he? 2 (34m 36s): Is 13. 4 (34m 37s): 13. 2 (34m 39s): Yeah. I know. Isn't that awful, but he's the only person I met that happened that actually like, like lost their taste. Like I've never heard. That was a big thing, but when I, you know, our family, hadn't nobody else. So I'm glad you're better. That's that's too bad. 5 (34m 57s): Yeah. I've been replaced by sites for sure. 2 (35m 3s): Well, okay. Okay. Well you, you get the girl, you get the party for not having COVID anymore, but what was the like band milestone next party after the main stage? 4 (35m 12s): So I think the funny thing is that we did the isle of white thing in 2019 and you know, we'd kind of got some stuff together and it was all going great. And then COVID happened basic. 2 (35m 25s): Oh sure. Okay. 4 (35m 27s): There was so many milestones during COVID. So for example, our first song to get onto Spotify playlist and not just kind of get onto them, but it's still on 8 (35m 41s): With classes in crisis communication influence and data presentation, Gonzaga university's online, master's in communication and leadership equips you with the tools you need to communicate clearly and encourage creativity in any industry concentrations in digital media, strategic communication and global leadership allow you to customize your degree. Visit gonzaga.edu/communication and learn why a masters degree from Gonzaga can help you take your career to the next level. That's gonzaga.edu/communication. 10 (36m 12s): Please walk Sparky for me. No way I'll throw on a caramel frappe. Ooh, make it a large deal. 11 (36m 21s): You get a sweet deal. $2, any seismic cafe beverage on the McDonald's app 10 (36m 26s): Between you and me Sparky. I would've walked you for free 11 (36m 31s): Baba offer valid through 4, 3 22 or participated in McDonald's fell. One time per day McDonald's app, download registration required. 0 (36m 41s): Facebook safety teams protect billions of people each month. They lead the industry in stopping bad actors online that's because they've invested more than $13 billion in the last five years, quadrupling their safety and security teams to 40,000 people and investing in industry leading AI technology to enhance safety on their platforms. It's working over the last several months. They've taken action on 1.7 billion fake accounts, 51.7 million violent and graphic posts. 62 million explicit adult posts, 9.3 million drugs and firearms sales posts, but working to reduce harmful and elicit content on their platforms is never done. 0 (37m 26s): Keeping your feeds safe will continue to be everyone's priority at Facebook. Learn more about how they're helping people connect and share safely at about.fb.com/safety. 4 (37m 41s): Some Spotify playlist. And we released that. Literally. I think it was don't quote me on it, but the 27th of March, 2020. 5 (37m 50s): Wow. You remember the wow. Yeah, 2 (37m 57s): Yeah. After, well, I mean, I know for in Europe it was a bit different, but here in the states, like they shut everything down. Like March, I think it was March 13th was like, everything went under, it was like NBA canceled, Tom Hanks has it. This is a big deal. Yeah. 4 (38m 14s): Soon as Tom has it. 2 (38m 16s): Yeah. Then it was serious. I mean that's Then everything shut down. But I know like looking at Italy and everything, I mean, that was scary and it got really bad in New York, but I mean, I don't know when you guys officially closed everything down, was it around the same time? 4 (38m 31s): Pretty much around this in the UK, they started, I mean know, we could go into the ins and outs of how awfully mismanaged the whole thing has been in every country, but essentially 2 (38m 45s): Sooner or later, as far as that went, 4 (38m 47s): It was, it was around, I'd say around the same time they started to fizzle things out basically. And, but we released heartache melody and it just took us all by surprise basically. Cause it just, yeah, just took off and we were all thinking, this is cool. And then the next week there'd be another playlist. It was, this is cool. You know, going from, I don't know, like 500 monthly listeners on Spotify to, I think with heartache melody, we got up to like 25,000 or something like that. We were really pleased. 2 (39m 26s): Oh yeah. That's amazing. Do you remember like, was it once they hit the platelets? Was it like significantly getting more plays? Like, do you remember seeing it like, you know, the first two days then maybe it didn't do what you thought and then it just goes that's when to just spice, 4 (39m 42s): Genoa, it was pretty instant. It was, you know, just the cause we tend to release our music on Friday because new music Friday, You always want to be in the running for all of that. And basically, yeah, no, we released it. It got into a whole bunch of different Spotify playlists. We just saw the, you know, the thousands happening in a day, which at the time, you know, 2 (40m 6s): That's 4 (40m 6s): Usually took us a month. So I mean, that was awesome. And then on top of that, having the song played on BBC radio one, which is like, 2 (40m 20s): Yeah, the Manner. 4 (40m 22s): Exactly. Yeah. And it was being played by Jackson does and, and yeah. I mean, that was just really cool to kind of have all of these things happening. We were just kind of sending champagne emojis. 5 (40m 37s): Yeah. 2 (40m 38s): I mean, to get your song played on BBC one, that's like the biggest accomplishment I would think, right. As far as radio goes in and any UK and like, how do you like, do you get a call saying like, yo, like this is a red record, we're going to put it on or how does that work? 4 (40m 55s): So for the most part, what happens is there's something called the BBC uploader in the UK where you can put your music on and BBC are pretty great in the sense that they'll always listened to it. And they'll send you a notification saying this track has been listened to. And if, and if that's the only notification you get, you 2 (41m 14s): Know, we 4 (41m 15s): Should try harder next. 2 (41m 17s): Well, and here I come from radio, I did radio for 15 years in the United States. And w you know what I mean? You know, how many I can't, it's terrible to say, but are like, as if you're on the air, you would, he had a mailbox. I mean, when I first started you getting mailed to like demos by a lot of people that just mail you these CVS, and I mean, nine out of 10 times, nobody put them in there, you know, unless you got like four different phone calls sitting like, oh, Hey, like we mailed you, blah blah. And it would always have to come from another third party. It wasn't being like th the not a whole lot of bands would submit music that actually got listened to and got played for the most part. 2 (41m 60s): And the fact that they will come back and say, Hey, we listened to this, like, sorry, it's not going to get picked up, but somebody heard it. I mean, that's enough instead of just throwing it into the abyss and, you know, maybe it landed into somebody's inbox. Maybe it landed in somebody's mailbox, maybe 4 (42m 16s): Of concern 2 (42m 17s): Then like throwing the trash or whatever, 4 (42m 19s): Like, yeah, no, for sure. And that's the thing, like, I remember the days of needing to make sure that your CD was great and, you know, you need to make sure the contact information is on the CD, as well as the CDKs and all of that kind of business. But I think that what the BBC website has is you're able to kind of submit it by genre and different stuff. So I think that it kind of gets set up and categorized in such a way where they're able to kind of deal with the deluge of people who send their stuff in. And because there are so many different BBC programs, if you succeed in one, you might get bumped up to the next or so forth. 4 (43m 2s): So, I mean, so that was, that was really cool. When that happens. 2 (43m 6s): Did you guys go right to one or was it like, did you have to go through sift through the hierarchy of like, 4 (43m 13s): We went to radio one. 2 (43m 15s): Wow. 4 (43m 15s): It's really cool and amazing. And yeah, it was, it was great to kind of listen to that and then walk outside in the middle of the street and just kind of not see any cars, because obviously everyone was quiet. How great was that? By the way, I mean, obviously it was a terrible time in terms of everything wrong, but not hearing planes, not hearing that many cars. That was pretty great. The air in London was actually as close to fresh as it probably ever has been. 2 (43m 46s): They didn't show footage. And this is footage that they showed it here in the states of Italy and like dolphins, like diving in these canals, like Dan, you guys hadn't had dolphins in like forever or something like that. And they're like all migrated there because no one's around. There's like nobody around. I thought that was wild. 5 (44m 10s): Oh, it was great time look down. I mean, I even the first two months were fantastic. It was just like a break from everything. Yeah. It was just like, oh, but then after those two months that, you know, I kind of, yeah. So 4 (44m 33s): We were in quite a lucky position in the sense that we had a whole bunch of songs already recorded going into a lot done. So as you know, heartache, melody did something. So we went right. We need to release something else as soon as possible. And our management team with grace, it kind of just getting a little of that together. So we just kept on releasing and I don't know exactly how many songs we actually released over this entire period. It's a few, and I'm just kind of seeing the Spotify go from strength to strength, which is all you could really hope for in lock down was just, I mean, that, that was really great for us just to kind of be able to see all of that. 4 (45m 18s): And I think it's in terms of all of these kind of milestones that you achieved, like I've, and I think it would be very rare to find any musician that hasn't ever felt this way. You always kind of think, right. I'm going to play that gig and then there's going to be the a and R person there. And then that's it success. I will have a mansion. It's going to be 2 (45m 39s): Yeah. The million dollar check and yeah. Yeah, 4 (45m 43s): Exactly. I bet. I think the way I like to say it is just, you go through a number of corridors. So basically the first corridor that you go through, you see a door at the end, it's pretty dingy. It's not a very nice corridor. You get through the door, you think this is it, but then what you have is another corridor mildly better. And then you keep on going through and through and through. And I like to think that where we are now, there's nice wallpaper. There are no musts in the carpet, but you know, there are still some more corridors to God. I kind of think that in the past, whereas I think as a band, we probably wanted everything immediately. I personally am really enjoying the journey as it goes along in times of just like, this is great. 4 (46m 29s): We've got into this new bit and we can see things happening. And there's just a lot more clarity and presence of mind in terms of where to go. Yeah. Yeah. 2 (46m 37s): Well, you haven't done. I mean, you've talked about heartache, melody, but voices, at least on your Spotify has even more plays. Was that like, like when you saw that happen, was that another situation where it landed on a Spotify playlist and you're like, oh my gosh, like we did it again. 4 (46m 51s): And that's the thing. Yeah. Basically I think that one got onto Orlando was a walk like a badass, I think the Spotify. 5 (46m 57s): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That'll tell us the one playlist, 4 (47m 0s): Because a lot of the time what can happen on Spotify is that, you know, you have your release day, some playlists pick it up, which is amazing. And that's still, you know, that novelty is still hasn't worn off for us. Right. You kind of get on the playlist. And then if it's the kind of playlist, which updates every week, you have this sinking feeling and a very literal, numerical, sinking feeling. But the fact is that a lot of the playlist that we've got on too, we've somehow stayed on, which is amazing. So heartache melody is on the dirty rock playlist and has been for a long time since it came out. 4 (47m 41s): And what like about us voices. I think that we released that. I want to say end of January last year and that one, you know, it's, it's lapped, heartache, melody. 2 (47m 56s): It's amazing. That's incredible. Especially thinking like, oh, you're like, okay, we've heard this song out. It does. Awesome. That's great. But then it's like, are we going to be able to follow this up? I know that a lot of artists have that kind of doubt and then you do obviously, right. And then voices comes out as like, it even goes bigger. So that's incredible. 4 (48m 15s): Yeah. I think it is really a great feeling just to kind of have, sounds, sounds obvious, I guess, but it's really on a basic level. It's really nice that people like our music, you know what I mean? It's, You know, it's such a simple thing to say, but the fact that so many people have added it to their personal playlists and you know, there used to be a time when we would look at on Spotify for artists, it shows you how many people are listening live, basically. Yeah. So way back when we used to kind of look at that most of the time it said zero, and if there was ever one, we would screenshot it as quickly as possible just to make sure. 4 (49m 0s): And we'd send it to each other and say, call it a live one. 2 (49m 5s): That's cool though. Right? I mean, 4 (49m 6s): Yeah. The fact that it's, it's, you know, it's considerably more than that now. It's just nice to know that whatever we're putting out there, because I think on a lyrical standpoint, a lot of the songs going to be address mental health and kind of just general life stuff. It's not all about let's get in the Cadillac and, you know, put on some shades and drive as fast as we can. It's more like, it's more like, oh, I've had a really bad day slash life and that's hard. Do you think it's hard? And then people go, yeah, I think that's pretty hard. 2 (49m 46s): Well, to, to that note, I mean your new record that's coming out, it's called the therapy it's it's about therapy. Correct. But it's got like kind of a humorous undertone to it. Is that what I was reading about it 4 (49m 57s): In a way? Yeah. So basically, so we had therapy one which starts off, which was Jessica therapy. I mean, w we're not in the Steven Seagal style friends franchise, is it like under siege therapy, reloaded 2 (50m 12s): Therapy, but it's the therapy sessions, 4 (50m 15s): The therapy sessions. Exactly. That's the name of the, And as you'll see the title of my new, basically the therapy sessions is an EAP, which is like it's accumulation of songs, which we've released with circular wave or amazing partners in Germany. And I think it starts with saved me. I'm not crazy. So this isn't like a track listing, but these are the songs that we released. And it goes all the way through to this new single, which is going to be on there called therapy too. And the thing with it being kind of humorous is more from the perspective. 4 (50m 59s): I think that it's, if one person were to listen to it from just a normal headed standpoint, they wouldn't listen to it and go, ah, I think that if the doc depths of depression, there's a kind of humor that comes with the just futility of life. Do you know what I mean? There's this kind of whole thing of just like, that's actually kind of funny, just like, let's talk about hating people, but ultimately not liking ourselves. It's like that there is a certain humor to that, not to mention the fact that we've got this therapist who we, well, I'm the voice of the therapist and it's just this person who just goes, well, Hey there, little Jimmy welcome to therapy. 4 (51m 47s): He says, oh, so long, your little psycho stuff like that, which obviously a therapist would never say, 2 (51m 52s): Right? Of course 4 (51m 54s): It's part of the kind of power annoyed stage that you can be in when you're really in the dark depths of psychosis, depression, you name it, just that kind of thing of the things, which shouldn't be funny, a really funny. 2 (52m 9s): Right, right. It's like, you're drawing attention to something that's very serious matter, but you can kind of poke fun at yourself or poke fun at the situation it's coming through on this, you know? 4 (52m 20s): Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I definitely wouldn't say it was like comedic, but it's kind of like a nudge and a wink if you know, you're not 2 (52m 30s): That's that's well, yes. In the wreck, the full EPS coming in, is there only one song left? They haven't released that. Is that going to be therapy too? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Very cool. 5 (52m 44s): Sorry. 2 (52m 45s): Say again. No, go ahead. Go ahead and Orlando. Sorry, go ahead. 5 (52m 48s): I was allowed to say, I feel like we need to ask Jim how he came up with the, the main riff with therapy to, 2 (52m 59s): How did you come up with the main riff for therapy to their gym? 4 (53m 2s): Well, Hey, I'm really glad you asked me, You know, whenever you're you're cooking and you, I don't know if you're a, a wooden spoon kind of go, what 2 (53m 15s): Were you cooking? 4 (53m 17s): You know what I can't remember, but I reckon because of the frequency of the, I'd probably say I'm vegan case. 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Okay. 4 (55m 7s): But basically I make a mix first, actually got to tell you what, so 2 (55m 14s): I'm not going to give you the recipe. 4 (55m 15s): That's where every good story begins from the big pinning. So basically plenty of garlic red on human Chipotle paste. Then I get some tomatoes, diced mushrooms, spinach re fried beans, black beans, kidney beans, mix, all of that up together, get some more Chipotle pastes and cumin and paprika obviously, or paprika. Some people call it And, and then basically you layer it up on a case of deal with in a frying pan. And you make sure there's cheese in that. 4 (55m 57s): Oh, of course you add some rice to the mix as well, just to fill it up a bit. Yeah. But as a vegan, I can say that it gives you all of the nutrients that you need. And of course, if you make yourself a homemade guacamole or salsa, then you're getting a bit of fiber as well. 2 (56m 20s): And when is your cookbook come out? 4 (56m 24s): The, the 30 7th of February. 2 (56m 27s): Okay. <inaudible> 4 (56m 38s): And I come up with the riff idea because when you use a wooden spoon, sometimes you get some of the stuff still on the spoon when you take it out. So what I always tend to do is I do something. So if you can't hear this, I'll try and do it in claps instead, but I get the spoon and I go Like that. Can you hear that on there? Yeah. So yeah, exactly like That. And, and I just kind of, I've always done that, but for whatever reason on that particular day I went, oh, that's a good idea. And it just turned into this riff, which starts with 14 (57m 15s): Donna and I don't bow down. Damn man. And I don't. 4 (57m 19s): Wow. Wow. So, yeah. And now every time I do it, I get into a bit of a, I don't know, an OCD had thing. Just like, do I need to finish the song or the food? 2 (57m 34s): That's amazing. Yeah. 5 (57m 37s): Every time we played a song, I could see Jim that he's still thinking about that case with you. 2 (57m 42s): Right. 5 (57m 42s): You can see in as high as, 2 (57m 47s): But anyway. Okay. So, well, you guys didn't put out the sweet tooth EAP too long ago, either. Right. That kind of came out recently. 4 (57m 58s): So basically what we like to do is we try, so we consider all the songs that we've released so far to be singles. But what we do is we involve them in, I guess you could describe it as an unwitting EAP in the sense that the EAP doesn't even know it's an EAP, but it's more of a way of just kind of, Hey, listen to this song and oh my God. Look at all of its friends. 2 (58m 24s): Hey 4 (58m 25s): Guys, 2 (58m 29s): It's smart though. It's smart. Right? I mean, especially in the world of Spotify, why are you going to be like, and here's a whole record that you're only probably going to pay attention to two songs on, or may, you know, doubt give each song their opportunity to shine. 4 (58m 44s): It's kind of like a master chef thing, you know, where you kind of focus on the main dish and you kind of tell people as they prepare it, but you don't wanna waste anyone's time CSI. Here's something I made earlier. And basically, you know, there you go. And, and you know what, it's actually worked, even when I think it was when we released therapy, the, the prequel to therapy to styrene and Save me. I'm not crazy. I actually got added to another Spotify playlist. I think it was the transistors Spotify. Is that the one? Oh yeah. 5 (59m 22s): I think so. Yeah. 4 (59m 23s): I don't know why I remember these things Night. 7 (59m 30s): It's great. 4 (59m 34s): But yeah. So yeah, so basically a sweet tooth came out and that we were really pleased with the reception on that, especially weirdly in terms of sinks, which the people don't know what a sink is, is whenever music gets matched to, you know, an advert or something in a 2 (59m 54s): Movie. Right. 4 (59m 55s): Exactly. And it was used for so many different football things. 7 (59m 59s): Really, really weird. 4 (1h 0m 1s): So soccer 2 (1h 0m 2s): And are you guys, fans, football fans are now 4 (1h 0m 6s): For the purpose of this interview? Absolutely. 2 (1h 0m 10s): No reality 4 (1h 0m 12s): In all reality. Absolutely. 5 (1h 0m 21s): Yeah. 4 (1h 0m 22s): Yeah. So I met, so it was, it was great. It was great to kind of say that because I think that we knew that when we were doing it, we're just going to thought this, this feels like the kind of, you know, like the goal highlights, reel kind of thing. And, you know, it's kind of like, it was either going to be that, or just like a super radical golf tutorial. So we're glad it was football, I guess. 2 (1h 0m 45s): Yeah. That's cool. That's really cool. Do you remember seeing on TV the first time? 4 (1h 0m 49s): Yeah, so it was actually, so there's the, oh, I'm going to try and get this right. The SPF view, which is the Scottish professional football, Not union. I think league S PFL 5 (1h 1m 5s): Right? Yeah. That's it that's the one. 4 (1h 1m 8s): It was great. It was basically just like a goal thing. And that was great. And I think basically the reason why we released sweet tooth in January 7 (1h 1m 16s): Is because 4 (1h 1m 17s): We were very aware of the fact that all of our songs, a little bit dark 7 (1h 1m 23s): And 4 (1h 1m 23s): A little bit mental health. So we just kind of thought rather than make the January blues works for absolutely everyone, maybe we would release something that was a bit more fun 2 (1h 1m 35s): And, 4 (1h 1m 35s): And yeah, luckily yeah, many survivors of that release. So 7 (1h 1m 41s): That 4 (1h 1m 44s): All your really fun 7 (1h 1m 45s): Really. Yeah. 2 (1h 1m 47s): That's amazing. Well, congratulations. I mean that's so yeah, that's incredible. Especially have the success that you have built over the course of period where not a lot of people are able to play live and with all the noise of everyone else posting and live streaming and to be able to cut through that, that's really something to be proud of. That's awesome. 4 (1h 2m 7s): For sure. I mean, I think that the live streaming was, I mean, personally speaking, so like I love playing gigs. I love playing gigs. I love going out. It doesn't matter how many people there are. I used to get nervous in the past, but now I just feel excited instead. So I got butterflies and stuff, but I've never been more terrified in my entire life than having to do an Instagram live performance. 2 (1h 2m 32s): Really. What was it about that just cause like technical issues or it's recorded? Like what would, what would be scary? 4 (1h 2m 42s): I think the technical issues for sure. Just in the sense that obviously you're kind of, you're doing your thing. And whereas usually there might be like a sound technician or something like that to kind of make sure that people can hear what it is that you're putting. 2 (1h 2m 58s): Yeah. 4 (1h 2m 59s): Yeah. That was that aspect of it. But at the same time, just so weird not to have any reception and to literally be in your front room, being like, Hey London, how are we do Kind of like, you can just hear your neighbors, thoughts upstairs. 2 (1h 3m 19s): <inaudible> Rockstar. 4 (1h 3m 28s): I just kind of thing. Lockdown has been hard on some people. 2 (1h 3m 34s): Oh man, that's funny. Okay. Yeah, but I could see that not having the lake. Oh, that was like, you're just seeing like thumbs, maybe climbing 4 (1h 3m 42s): Up the validation. 2 (1h 3m 44s): Yeah. Well right at that, we'd kind of have to feed off that I would imagine for sure. Like, am I doing terrible? Well, look, I gotta keep playing five more. Yeah. 4 (1h 3m 53s): Yeah, exactly. And that's also being very hard of sight. I don't even know if that's an expression. I know that people could be hard of hearing. What, what, what is the expression for sites actually, any ideas? I imagine it needs to be a literative as well. If it's hard of hearing, what would it be? Like? Sorry of sites. I don't know. But you know, just looking at again on a small 2 (1h 4m 19s): Workshop at later 4 (1h 4m 22s): And just kind of, you know, tapping with my blender, his fingers, just trying to make something of it. It's like, Hey guys, You know, I'm covering everything up on the screen. Okay. Yeah. But, but Hey, we're playing live gigs now. 2 (1h 4m 39s): Yeah. I was going to say, well, at least you are Orlando hasn't or he didn't play Just kidding. 5 (1h 4m 50s): I was feeling all right, it's do it. But I just, I didn't want to everyone else risk. 2 (1h 4m 55s): Oh yeah. Not worth it for sure. That, 4 (1h 4m 57s): Yeah. W we're one of those bands who happens to believe that COVID is real. I know that that is controversial 2 (1h 5m 5s): For 4 (1h 5m 5s): Some reason, you know? So w we like to try and be responsible with all that kind of stuff. 2 (1h 5m 12s): Sure. Do you have a tool? Like, was it just a one-off show? Are you guys doing, are you doing a tour coming up or 4 (1h 5m 18s): So it was basically, it was part of it's all that we were doing with this band, bang, bang, Romeo. Who are 2 (1h 5m 24s): You already talked about? That? 4 (1h 5m 24s): Yeah, our label mates and they're, they're awesome. And basically the tour was supposed to happen April 20, 20. 2 (1h 5m 33s): Wow. 4 (1h 5m 34s): And it was re rescheduled Orlando, like three to three times, at 5 (1h 5m 39s): Least twice, at least 4 (1h 5m 40s): Twice. And, and yeah, so basically the dates needed to happen separate from each other, But yeah, it was, it was great. And Orlando was there when we played Shepherd's Bush in London at bushel. And that was terrific. Just playing. I think it was a sold-out show, I think like 400 people or something maybe. 5 (1h 6m 3s): Yeah. I have one of them got. 2 (1h 6m 6s): Yeah. Yeah. And one of those 400 people decided to show up. Yeah. 5 (1h 6m 15s): It was, it was great. Like it was, it was a great show And yeah. And we also had a good chat with fans, but that's probably why I got COVID, but yeah. But yeah, no, it was great. Yeah. I wish we could play more live. I think we're going to do it more in the future. 2 (1h 6m 37s): Very, very cool. Well, I appreciate you guys being here. Thank you so much for doing this, this interview. This is an awesome, Yeah. I have a quick question for you Orlando, before I move on to my last one. And I'm just curious now that you have the law degree, is that something that like, how are you going to be like a band's lawyer or anything like that? 5 (1h 7m 0s): I'm terrible at it. 2 (1h 7m 2s): Like, what did you, What did you go to be a lawyer to for entertainment? 5 (1h 7m 8s): Well, it's different. It's like, it's, it's a different path. Like in Italy you can do a lot of things with no degree. It's not just being a lawyer. But I remember was when I realized I wasn't right for that, I was already, I already done a lot of exams. So I was like, you know what? I'll just 2 (1h 7m 29s): Finish it. That makes sense. 5 (1h 7m 31s): Which is, which is quite hard, but yeah. But then I decided to, yeah. Throw it in the bin. It looks great on my, on my wall, literally. So yeah. 2 (1h 7m 45s): Yeah. And you always have the today. That's awesome. Well, thank you again, both so much. My last question is if you have any advice for aspiring artists, 4 (1h 8m 0s): Orlando, do you want to go first and then I'll go next. 5 (1h 8m 4s): Oh, you go first. 4 (1h 8m 6s): Okay. I would say don't well, first of all, you can do it. So, but now here comes the real bit. Don't expect everything to be done for you. You need to make sure that you work every single day. It's not glamorous. It's not fun. But everything that you're working towards is to make sure that you can have fun at the live gigs. But if you don't put the work in off the stage, no one's ever going to care. You could write the best songs in the world. Doesn't matter. The other thing is be present for every moment that you're experiencing, because you will eventually have that kind of feeling where you need to chase the next thing. 4 (1h 8m 51s): And you know, you achieve something. And rather than appreciating the thing that you've just achieved, you're kind of thinking of the next thing when you're playing a gig efforts. Okay. Look up, have a look at the audience, have a little smile to yourself. Give yourself a pat, pat on the back and yeah. Basically just be present and realistic and keep working. 2 (1h 9m 13s): I love it. I love it. Thank you so much, Jim. 5 (1h 9m 15s): Sorry. I think I found out everything to that, so yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 4 (1h 9m 25s): Yeah. But if I can decide on the end, so the therapy sessions, it's going to be released on the 25th much and, and yeah, we can't wait for people to get involved and we would love for people to find us on all of our socials and stuff, especially Instagram, because you know, it just makes our lives easier.