We want to portray the individuality of that story for Judah and for the band, and then hopefully that can relate to somebody who has their own version of pain and grief that they're going through. Awesome. Well, I'm Adam. I'm super excited to chat with you both. And I had a chance to hear the album really, really, really good. Thanks. Yeah, I love how it's, you know, it's broken down and you have the little pieces of the instrumentals that kind of pull it all together with the five phases of grief. It's really, really creative and it's a fantastic record. Thanks, man. Thanks for listening. Yeah, I love it. So, well, let's just get started here. So I always start with, like, where you guys were born and raised, and we'll talk about how you met and then, you know, the band and the new album and all that great stuff. So cool. Brian, what about you? Where were you born and raised? I know you. You both met in Nashville. Still there. But where were you born and raised originally? Yeah, I grew up in the Chicago suburbs in a town called Wheaton, and went to high school there, started learning piano, taking lessons at a young age, and then playing in bands in middle school just with my friends and doing the talent shows and that kind of thing. And then eventually moved to Nashville to go to college at Belmont. And that's for piano. Is that what you, or did you go for something totally different? I was studying guitar originally. Okay. When I came to Belmont, and then after a year of guitar, I had met Judah and Nate started playing together and I was playing mandolin even from the beginning of meeting those guys. So I switched to being a mandolin major after that first year of guitar, and then after that year dropped out and we started touring full time. Geez. Okay. That's amazing. So you started on piano, though? Originally it was a piano. And then eventually started playing guitar? Yeah. Okay. At what age did you switch or did you continue both piano and guitar? Yeah. So piano. I was taking lessons since I was like ten, and still it's one of my favorite instruments to play. It's the whole keyboard laid out in front of you. It's like, it's a good way to think about music and to think about what you're playing. So I've always continued with piano that whole time. But, yeah, around 6th grade was when my grandma got me a guitar for Christmas. She gave me the best Christmas presents. She gave me a unicycle one year she gave me a guitar. So then I started picking up guitar as well around middle school. Okay. And mandolin, was that something that came later, or is it just another instrument you picked up? Yeah. Then mandolin was actually a Christmas gift from my siblings, and that was, like, at the end of high school. I think I was, like, a senior in high school. Wow. So right before I came to college, I started picking around on the mandolin right before I met Nate and Judah. Wow, that's amazing. And, Judah, you're originally from Tennessee, correct? Yeah, I'm from middle Tennessee. Cookville. Okay, tell me about Cookeville and then how you kind of got old. Cook. Vegas. Yeah. It's like, a nice, like, beautiful small town. I grew up kind of near the water. Like, there's kind of, like, a bunch of waterfalls and lakes there. So I actually kind of grew up, like, a major jock. I was, like, super into, like, a basketball and, like, travel, baseball, and picked up music, like, when I went through, like, kind of a tough injury after my freshman year in high school, and it kind of just took me out for, like, a few months. So I kind of, like Brian. Like, I started on the piano with trying to, like, learn how to read music, and that would just, like, really never for me. I think I was probably a little bit too add for that. Then that summer, after my freshman year, injury in my back, my uncle taught me how to play guitar, and then I kind of started playing, like, the piano by ear. So I kind of realized, like, I wasn't really meant for maybe the classical approach to learning music. It was more of, honestly, the natural number system that really kind of unlocked a lot of things for me. I'm, like, down. Were you playing, like, down into the honky tonks and stuff? Like, I mean, that whole number system is so crazy to me. Well, actually, that's. That's the way my, um, my uncle taught me. So he. It was very, like. And once I kind of got the number system, it was. It. Everything else kind of made sense to me in a weird way. Um, and I'm not, like, frustratingly good at anything, like Brian is. Brian can pick up anything and just play it. And play it really well. That's an exaggeration, but thank you. I play. I play well enough to get by with. With writing, so. And write hit records and everything else. Well, just. Just like, that's what I even that freshman year when I just knew the GNC chord, I, like, just fell in love with writing music and just how. Yeah, just, like, how it can kind of, you can connect emotionally with something so, you know, simple, but yet so, like, beautiful. And somehow that could connect to another heart that just always kind of was so compelling to me about music, so. And then I ended up playing baseball at Belmont. So you must have been, I mean, a very, very. You said you were, you know, a jock growing up or you played sports, but, I mean, to make it to that level at baseball, I mean, that's pretty wild. I mean, was that life? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I really wanted to play college basketball, to be honest, and ended up getting recruited to play baseball, which I probably had more of, like, the athletic figure for baseball, but, yeah, we. We had a couple championships when we were there. Lucky enough to be around some really good players. I was very average. So, yeah, then met the boys, and then, like, it was just kind of on from there. Like, I was playing with, like, rock bands and, like, kind of in and out of, like, I don't know, like, synth rock, electric guitar bands. And the both boys, Nate and Brian, were studying these, like, hulk instruments. So we met that one time, jammed out, like, really connected relationally, and then next thing you know, we were, like, starting to band kind of crazy back in 2011. Wow, okay, so did you, like, how did you all meet? Was it, like, in a class or you run into each other? So it's not like, it wasn't, like, out of the blue necessarily at Belmont to, like, go and jam with people, you know? Because, you know, Belmont is just kind of this hub of just, like, amazing talent and musicians and that. I think it was like that summer previous to that semester, I was studying music business. So one of the perks of going to Belmont is you have access to all these, like, amazing studios. Yeah. And they're free, you know, because they kind of come along, you know, with tuition and whatnot. But I was writing these songs kind of secretly and kind of playing them for my family, but didn't really have, like, the courage to, like, or didn't really even, like, have the ambition to, like, record them. I just wanted to write songs, and my mom was like, you know, you're. You're at this school and, you know, two years later, like, when you're graduated, these studios aren't going to be free, you know? So I met the boys. Like, my roommate at the time randomly knew Nate. Nate knew Brian because they, again, were, like, kind of the folk instrument, the instrumentation, like, they were just learning and playing a lot together. And so we met in the cafeteria, like, had lunch, just connected, like, relationally. Similar backgrounds, very different people, but, like, foundationally very similar in, like, our. I guess our heart for music was very similar. So it was just that it was like right before that winter break in 2011, December we like, went to the bell tower after the calf. I like, remember like calling my mom like kind of emotional and just like, man, I just feel like this is kind of the sound that, you know, we're kind of meant to like bring to the world. So from then on, we were like, Nate dropped out really quick. I was like, dude, I got two more years of baseball. I can't be dropping out. But, you know, we ended up kind of being done with school. Brian dropped out and Nate dropped out. And then we kind of hit the ground running in 2013 with touring and then kind of the rest, we just kind of just kept doing it until, you know, something happened. Wow, did you. So then you ended up finishing at Belmont through playing baseball? Yeah, I probably would have dropped out, but we had just come off like conference championship in the class. My senior class kind of was the class to kind of do it again if we were going to repeat. So I couldn't like, let my teammates down. Yeah, in that way. And so we finished that, that spring and I guess, I mean, I like that previous summer we would do like house show tours and stuff like that. But we really probably kind of started that 2013 year, you know, touring about 150 shows a year. Geez. Okay, so did you like, once you guys all met and had some songs together, did you record like those, those first records in. At Belmont? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, we, we recorded our first like two EPs there. We like one they have like what they call like the showcase series at Belmont. We won like the showcase. Um, and that, that honestly was like kind of like a launching pad for us to be able to go and like do house shows and stuff like that. Because at these showcases, you know, all of the students have to go to it if they wanted to get credit, you know, for like convocation credit or whatever. So our first show was in front of like 8000 students or whatever. And so just that alone, you know, they're going back home, you know, wherever they're from and kind of getting the word out and stuff like that as well. So that was such a great, like lucky launching pad for us. It also really spoiled us because we're playing in front of 8000 people and then we go play a rock show in Louisville in front of ten people. But we really did it the old school way. Like, we, we got a lot of great advice and we just, this roadie guy in Memphis saw us like when we were up and coming and just said hey, kind of brought me back was like, you know, you guys kind of have what it takes, but if you want to do this, do this. Like, y'all need to be touring about 150 shows a year. And so, you know, before, like, tick tock and like, all that stuff, you know, the way that, the old school way was just like, you know, go and play those hard shows, go and go and kind of, you know, take that. That road that's a little bit harder to travel. And it definitely kicked our asses. Like, we were, we were touring a lot, but somehow, some way, like, it felt like in each city, it just kind of kept growing each time we would come back. And so I think seeing that response, I think for Brian and I and the guys was always kind of enough for us to kind of keep. Keep propelling forward. Yeah. And was like, brian, you mentioned being in bands and everything. Like, obviously, prior to this, um, like, playing that, those. That talent show or that showcase the 8000 people was. What was that like? Was that just, like, much bigger than any of the other shows you had done or were you in bands that were doing touring and, and trying to make it prior to this band? No, all the bands that I was in was just kind of like, high school, high school talent show, and it was, you know, a lot of those friends who I played with are professional musicians today as well. But, you know, the most that we would ever play in front of is, like, 600 people at the, at the high school. So it definitely felt like a huge level up to start playing with Nate and Judah and then soon after that. I think that's the cool thing about the Belmont showcases, is they really give that opportunity for artists and bands to get in front of a lot of people with, you know, you can guarantee that you're going to be playing to a big crowd even if you don't have a following, even if people don't know who you are, that's, that's a really special thing that they have going on. So when we were able to win, to win that first showcase and then play in the best of the best, that was, like, such a cool jumping off point for us to be able to go do that house show tour in front of ten people in Kansas City and just really build from. Build from something. When did you, was it after that showcase that you ended up leaving school or had you guys kind of achieved? I know. You mean that even that sweet Tennessee EP did, like, really well. Like, you know, made billboard and all these things. Like, were you at that level yet? Or was it, okay, I think this is going to work. Let's just. I'm just going to go with it because this is my dream. Yeah. Yeah. It was always. It was always a slow and steady growth, I think, for us. You know, like, it can look like from the outside, like, whoa, they blew up. They. They got this hit and just everything exploded. But really, like, it's always been that slow and steady growth. So after that, the best of the best showcase at Belmont, we did a summer tour, which was maybe ten shows. And they were, I think all of them, or most of them were house shows where we hit people up on facebook said, hey, we're going to do a house show tour. If you want to host us, we'll play a show at your house. Just maybe feed us dinner and let us sleep on your floor. Like, crash on the floor. So we took the van, did that, and then I did one more semester at school. That was in the summer of 2012, I believe. And then I did one more semester at school. Nate and Judah actually picked up a part time job, went out during that semester. I think we did a couple hometown shows. We played a show in Athens, Georgia, which was a big moment for us at the 40 watt, which is a cool, kind of divey venue down there with a lot of cool history. Ended up selling that show out from the momentum, like, with the sweet Tennessee EP. And then I dropped out after that semester, and that's when we went on the road full time, starting in the beginning of 2013. And with. Even with that first album, I mean, it's. You guys mentioned, like, you people thought that you just came out and you had this hit because that was much later, though. That was like 2016, I think, right when. When take it all back. Like, took it was the biggest song I remember. I was on terrestrial radio at the time in San Diego, and when that song came out, you couldn't go anywhere without hearing. I mean, it was insane. But you had an album before that and EPs before that, that both did. Well, prior to that, even really, you know, happening. Right? Yeah. And we even. We even came out with full cop and roll, which is the album that take it all back is on. We came out with the original version of take it all back and then we edited it. I love version, to be honest. Like, with the chanting in the beginning and everything. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. But we changed it to make it more of a radio edit and. But that didn't happen until long. Not long after. But maybe six months after the full cop and roll came out and then. So we kind of. It's always been that slow build where we keep pushing forward and trying to. Trying to figure out our lane, I guess. So from, like, kids these days. Was it just, like you said, slow build? Were you guys just building? Touring, and it sounds like you're touring a lot and playing a ton of shows and just kind of slowly getting more people at the. When you've returned to cities. Um, and then obviously, well, folk and hip hop or full cop and roll came out, and you had the original version of that song. And then what made you guys go and do the 2.0? Was that a label or somebody come to you and be like, you know what? This could be, like, a huge hit, or was it something you all decided on prior? Yeah, that was. You take it, Judah, I've been talking a lot. You got it. To the first part of that question. We had a lot of very supportive artists, a lot of them Nashville based, who we opened for in the beginning, which enabled us to start building a little bit of a fan base. So we toured with Andrew rip, toured with Drew Holcomb, toured with Matt Carney. Oh, Matt Carney's great. I've had him on here. Yeah. And Ben rector. And so that enabled us to start doing our own headline shows, like, following up some of those tours and kind of start to build that momentum. We started playing take it all back before we even recorded it at those shows, and then recorded full cap and roll. We loved the original version of take it all back, and it wasn't necessarily a conscious plan or decision, but we just kind of felt like we wanted it to be a little bit more concise and give a little bit more synth heavy vibe to it, to make it friendly for radio. And so that's when I think, even after the album was released, we kind of made that decision to ask our producer, our buddy drew long, to edit that version that we did with Dave Cobb and make it more suited. Yeah, no, it's. When that came out, like you guys said, it was just, like, it exploded. I mean, you. Oh, I was in San Diego, and we're on. I was on the radio there, and you guys are playing, like, the big shows there. The big radio shows at, like, I was at the other alternative radio station. You guys played a show for the other. The other station, and it was just. Bro. But I think you guys came to our show. I think you came to our show because we had empire of the sun. I think you guys showed up like you played and came down of the show that we were doing is. It was on the same day, but, uh, we. But 91 explained you guys, too. So, uh, that was the station that I was on. But anyway, um, yeah, so you. That that happens. It blows up. And then when you put out pep talks a couple of years later, was it something like, are you in this moment where they do, we got to try to follow this up? I mean, you had suit and tie, all these huge, huge hits off of, you know, off that song or off that record. Like, when you went into that album, did you feel like you had to kind of. Did you feel pressure on it or anything like that? Or suit and jacket? I said suit and die, but feel pressure on that. I think it was, like, a good pressure. You know, our band, like, we lean a bit, like, competitive within ourselves, or maybe I should speak to myself. Like, that pressure kind of felt really fun because it was, like, there was maybe an expectation, but I think, like, for the three of us at the time, we were really longing, so, to just to kind of, like, stay true, like, to ourselves. And so pep talks ended up kind of being this, like, really, really for the first time, like, very kind of vulnerable personal record. So it felt like there wasn't necessarily a pressure for. I didn't feel like, a pressure of, like, oh, like, we need another hit or, you know, our band can't survive without another, you know, thing. Like, we. It just felt like, hey, let's. Let's stay, like, within ourselves. Let's double down on being authentic and trying to be, like, vulnerable and help kind of help people along this kind of, like, journey. I ended up kind of going through a lot in those few years when we were touring back home, kind of secretly with my. With my parents going through a really rough divorce and my mom kind of really struggling with addiction and a couple of, like, really close friends suicide. So it was just, like, a lot was kind of going on intertwined with kind of the success of the band. And so pep talks was just kind of, like, putting the anchor down on, like, hey, let's be raw and vulnerable. And hopefully, like, for this, like, whoever does get to, like, listen to this, it'll be, like, healing for them in some sort of way. And so, like, the show's definitely after pep talks became a bit more, like, healing of sorts and, like, and kind of intense in that way. And I guess this is a little bit of a rabbit hole, but it's just, like, I think we didn't really feel the pressure of having a hit, but, like, feeling, like, this maybe conviction to, like, write honest music, not that the other. Others, you know, wasn't, but it was, like, going through all that life and, like, learning how to navigate it, you know, mentally was really difficult. So it was like, hey, you know, let's. Let's be honest about where we're at, and if we have a hit, we have a hit. If we don't, um, it'll at least connect with the people that it's supposed to connect with. Yeah, 100%. And that's kind of. Some of that is in the new album as well, or is just more. Because, I mean, this new album is really vulnerable and having those stages of, you know, grief and everything else. Like this. Was the. Was revival similar as far as that goes, or was it. Did it come back on this new album? Well, it's funny because. And, Brian, you can chime in here, too, whenever. Whenever you want, but it feels like we love, like, our record stuff because it's almost like, time stamps on, like, where we were in life. Yeah. Like, kids these days was just like, us being kids and, like, believing in ourselves. Me and Brian were, like, living in the same bed for two years because we couldn't afford rent. Like, it was like. I mean, I look back, maybe me and Brian were talking about. I was like, I don't know how. Like, we didn't have money for, like, five years. I don't. Like, we were. I would make, like, egg sandwiches with, like, steak, you know, seasoning on it to differentiate, like, the meals, you know, and then, you know, then full cop and roll was just, like, this transition into, like, experimenting with, like, new sounds and genres and, like, not wanting to be like mumford and sons or sound like lumineers. Like, we wanted to, you know, find our own thing that we could bring to the world. And then pep talks in this, like, very pop ness was, like, this vulnerable record kind of learning how to be authentic with the world, sharing some of my personal, you know, failures and successes and all that stuff. And then revival was kind of written during my divorce and really learning how to, like, deal with heartbreak. And, like, I was not doing great mentally. I was coping in all the wrong ways. I was not really admitting to myself, like, how much I was struggling. And so revival is kind of, like, pointing us to the process, if that makes sense. So it's just. It was, like, at the time, you know, to be honest with you, I was, like, really fighting for my marriage, and so I wasn't really able to necessarily write about the defeat of the divorce. And then you know, the divorce ended up happening, and so now it was like when me and Brian kind of came back together and, like, how do. I don't want to write about this divorce? Like, this feels too. Too much, you know? Like, this is going to be a lot. And once we found kind of the stages of grief and writing it from a position of, like, forgiveness and acceptance towards me and my ex, it felt like, oh, we can be honest as possible now, because it's. It's not, you know. You know, there wasn't, like a. There wasn't, like, any jab songs necessarily. It was all through the lens of, like, healing and trying to, like, help the world. So, yeah, you're not taking shots at anyone. You're not. It's just really just a vulnerable. It's. It's such a. Just kind of. I love knowing that backstory. I just had a little brief thing about what, you know, kind of the. What the. What the process is about. But, yeah, I mean, it's. Yeah, it's a. It's an amazing record in the way it's written and everything else, but I just love the approach on it. Dude, thank you so much. Yeah, we're super excited to even, like, shed light on grief because for me, me and Brian, both of our moms are therapists on, like, the counseling side, on the educational side, and Brian's is more, like, on the actual therapist side. But, you know, the stages of grief, like, really helped me even, like, relearn some of the places like that. I was in denial, and that goes outside of my divorce. It was in a relationship and denial with me trying to be a savior for my mom, who was struggling with addiction places in my heart. I had chronic back pain for two years after the news of some stuff that was going on in my marriage, and I could not heal the back pain. I was doing ice baths every day, like, all this stuff until I really dealt with my anger. It didn't heal itself. And then when I let the anger kind of come up and really get angry about some of the things that were kind of going on, my back pain left no way. Wow. So, yeah, it was, like, very much like the body keeps the score type learning stuff for me during the process. So it was really, like, healing for. For me and Brian to, like, write this and figure out these areas, like, because I. You know, to be honest, like, I. The athlete in me was like, hey, give me a. Give me a plan. I'll do it to heal, you know? Right. The truth. The truth is, is, like, there's no rulebook to healing. You know, there's no, like, step to step process you. Like, once you get through denial, it's not like you're done with denial. You know, it's like, acceptance and love and forgiveness is all about, like, being able to hold all of it and just being like, okay, I woke up today, and I'm a bit sad because this thing happened or whatever it may be, and it's like, okay, I can sit with this and, like, treat this depression or sadness or anger like a friend. And once I started to have that kind of ability to, like, ask my anger, like, hey, you know, what's up? Like, what are you angry about? And sit with it. Then the healing really started kind of setting in. So it was, we want this record. Our desire is just for it to be healing for other people is, like, unprocessed grief because life is hard. I mean, I'm sure you have so many subsets of your own story that. And I'm hearing so much of my story and yours just. I mean, I battle with addiction myself, so hearing that your mom has that. I mean, I've just so sympathetic to that. And, um, I've had, uh, four cervical spine surgeries, so I've had to do that. But I'm now I'm thinking, like, damn, if I just get rid of. Maybe I'm holding a bunch of anger. Maybe that will help. Yeah, take. Take that baseball bat to some glass, bro. Yeah. Um, but, yeah, this is. I mean, the album, like I said, is. Is really cool, and I didn't know if it was going to. And it doesn't feel like it does, but, like, kind of go through, like, if it was anger, those songs in that piece gonna be, like, really heavier. But it. It all is, like, cohesive through the whole thing. It doesn't roll, like, you know, spot on when it comes to those things. I don't feel. And I don't know if that's what you guys were going like, we're anger, like, okay, these are gonna be the harder songs, or these are the. You know, denial is gonna be more of the slower. Like, was that even a thought process, or was it just like, these are the songs, and we'll categorize them as they are. I think we kind of pieced it together as we went along. Like, there were times where we were like, well, which category would this song go in? But, no, we didn't necessarily want to limit it to the angry songs. Have to be these really heavy rock screaming kind of thing. Like, we really, even some acceptance songs, like the. If you read the lyrics, like, there's. They're hopeful, but they're real and dark at the same time. And I think we just wanted to showcase that reality, which is the process of grief doesn't happen in this. In this linear way where once you get through denial, you're in anger and then you're in bargaining and then you're in depression. We wanted to showcase how fluid that can be and how individual that can be. You know, we want to portray the individuality of that story for Judah and for the band, and then hopefully that can relate to somebody who has their own version of pain and grief that they're going through. That's all. Yeah. That makes so much more sense. Yeah. Because it doesn't roll into, like, okay, we're gonna write these two or three songs for anger, so let's make the main. It was, you had already. The songs just happened as they happened. Then you guys went back and kind of categorized them where you felt it should work out. Yeah. And I think it was really helpful having the framework of the stages of grief prior to all the songs being written because it enabled us to work within this. This world of the grieving process. We had never made an album that way where we kind of really knew the roadmap before all the songs were written. And it kind of just became a fun puzzle piece to kind of go through together and piece together. Awesome. Did you. We also had, like, really good references, like me and Brian. You know, we loved being able to write, like, our own personal experience, you know, with these stages, but we're. We are definitely not professionals in the field, so, like, we're just storytellers, you know, that's what we're trying to tell this story. And so we. We definitely leaned on. We had some really good. Like, my aunt is actually in addiction, like, on the preventional side, and she. She's a professor at Tennessee Tech teaching. So she. I would call her or send her a song and be like, hey, you know, does this. You think this fits on the depression side? Or, you know, and then there's a song called starting over that I thought for sure was, like, kind of in the depression phase. And she was like, this is literal bargaining 101. Like, you're saying that you're, like, wrestling with God. So we had, like, educational professionals that were kind of helping us navigate, which we definitely leaned on. And then again, like, that helped us learn it. You know, that was like, oh, like that. That definitely was. Because bargaining, for me, at least, I never, you know, depression is kind of self explanatory denial, you know, anger, all that. And I'm like, what the hell is bargaining? Like, I don't really is that I'm bargaining with myself or whatever this was. And so to have my Aunt Elizabeth kind of help each us and my therapist James kind of show us, it was really beautiful. And just even on like an educational side of stuff. So we're definitely like a little bit more. I guess we were lucky to have, you know, these people kind of on our sides that, that really helped us through it. Yeah, you have like the professional resources that kind of help you. You navigate the thing. I mean, yeah, just the whole thing, like, all of that just reminds me, you know, I, like I said, I struggle with addiction and I'm in twelve steps and a lot of it kind of reminds me of going through those and just like having to really look at yourself and carp, you know, you do your resentment list and all that stuff. Like, that reminds me of like, kind of how you, after hearing you guys talk about the album where it kind of goes up and down and it's not just this linear process, it's, it's not. Okay, now I'm in anger, now I'm in bargaining. It's like you kind of go through waves and the fact that you wrote the album and we're like, oh, this should. I feel like this is starting over is more of like the depression. And then your, your aunt's like, nah, I mean, that's definitely bargaining. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Bounce your idea off in a way. Yeah, totally. Also good, good for you, man. Like, keep that, keep that up. Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you. I really love. My mom is in the twelve steps currently and she's, I guess she's like 90 days sober. Oh, hell yeah. That's amazing. Congratulations to your mom. That's, that's hard, man. The first, the first year is pretty brutal. Yeah. My, one of my favorite teachers says that we're all addicts. And I firmly believe that, like, it might not be like through like a substance or whatever, but I would call myself an addict, you know, I'm an addict to like, certain thoughts and things and I think we're all kind of in this life are, you know, can kind of default to being addicted to something, you know? So good for you for doing the work. I appreciate it. Yeah. I had a therapist tell me one time that she's like, I think they should teach the twelve steps in school. And I was like, that does make sense. I mean, you can pretty much put that first line to anything, and, well, that's what my. Look at yourself. My aunt. That's what, uh, essentially, she's in, like, the holistic side of therapy to where it's, like, holistic, meaning, you know, like, sometimes the world can kind of, like, stack, like, big pharma, like, medicine on stuff, like, after the. The symptoms already come out. But she's, like, her fuel, and she just got, like, an amazing grant for it is, like, actually going into, like, families, houses, and teaching these kids, like, ways of preventing becoming, like, addicts to things. So I think that's, like, really beautiful. Like, you're onto something there of, like, how. How we can kind of help heal the world through, like, what you're saying. Like, hey, you know, this could be something that comes up in your life. Here's the way to kind of look at it before it actually starts happening. Yeah. That's really amazing. That's so cool that your aunt's doing that. Wow. And here in time. I definitely. I definitely want to, like. I think, you know, I want to be an advocate for that, even, like, for young bands, too. Like. Yeah, because, you know, I think there's such an addiction for artists, like, with the adrenaline and, like, this amount of, like, you know, all of the serotonin hits when you're on stage. And it makes sense why bands and, you know, people kind of really struggle with substances and. Anyways, that's a rabbit hole. But I think something there just, like, teaching, you know, the twelve step program or whatever it may be to help prevent that toxicity of what could happen. I think that's really beautiful. Sure. No, thank you. Yeah, I think. No, I love the album. Fla is. I think. Is it just Fla or. Cause there's a space on the copy I have. I love that song. I think the whole album is awesome, but that one really stuck out to me. And the one with Kay flay, I love Kay fly. I've had her on a couple of times. Yeah, she's the best. Yeah. Tell me about, you know, working with her and having her on that song. It's definitely not something that, you know, her own personal project is so much different than that song, but the way that you guys come together is so awesome. Yeah. She's such an amazing artist. We love her a lot. We. We kind of became friends with her during that. She. She had blood in the cut out, and we had to take it all back, so we were doing a bunch of these, like, radio things, shows together. And she's just such a force. Like, she's got obviously such a beautiful spirit. And I became kind of closer with her through the pandemic. We would just catch up. She was going through a lot, like, with her ear, hearing loss, and I was kind of going through this divorce, and I just lost my uncle to, you know, to suicide. And so, like, a lot of stuff was kind of happening in my life trying to, like, navigate, and she was just. She's just the best. So we have nothing but respect for her. And then it's like, we have to do a song together. So the. She has all that feistiness and power, and you blend that in with, like, some banjo, and it kind of was a fun. A fun song to kind of do with her. I mean, it was just, like, all over zoom, too, so it was really fun. Oh, wow. That was all done via Zoom. That's incredible. Yeah. Were you, like, she just cut the vocals and send it back to you guys, or, like, how did. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's cool. Yeah, we kind of have the track, and then she. We thought it was going to be kind of like a. Like a duet feature, but our voices together throughout the whole song was kind of a ticket. It was a. It ended up being kind of, like, weirdly special. So, yeah, we love her a lot and love that song. It holds a special kind of, like, place in anger with, like, sarcasm, I think. Anger, for me at least, kind of came with a lot of, like, I don't know, has to kind of come with, like, a little bit of wit and, like, sarcasm. You kind of have to have fun with it, or you're just gonna get miserable. Well, the album's coming out next month, I believe. Right? 10 May 10th. Yeah. And you have some shows coming up with need to breathe, but are you guys going to do your own thing? Maybe play here in your hometown in Nashville, Tennessee next fall, baby. Okay, killer. Well, I appreciate your time today. Thank you both so much for doing this. And sorry you have to be in the car, dude. I didn't mean to. No, that was my fault. But I appreciate you guys. I love what you're doing. I love the album. And, you know, I became a fan. I can't say at the beginning, but in 2016, when I heard that song, I was like, damn, these guys have something real special here. And I have one more quick question for you both. If I can get an answer from each of you, if you have any advice for aspiring artists. Yeah. One of our mentors from the beginning just. He really kind of guided us in those beginning years. And one thing he told us was, which is super cliche, but he just said, only. Only write the songs that make you inspired and make you happy and stay true to who you are, because there's people in this industry that are going to want to tell you who you are before you even have discovered that for yourself. And that's what ruins a lot of. A lot of artists. So really sticking to that inner voice in that. That journey of discovering your sound or whatever it is for any kind of artist, was super important for us to kind of stick together on as a band in the beginning years. Love it. Yeah. This question is always so hard because it's like, there's so much to say. But I think for me, like, finding your ability to be loved outside of music or your art or your craft is really important. I feel like your identity can get so wrapped up if you're doing well, you're doing not, if you have a hit, if you're selling out shows or not, if people give a shit about you. You know, like, a lot of my ability to be loved kind of got, like, lost in the weeds of a lot of that. So first, find that, and then second is the, like, the belief has to be there because it's really, really hard. You have to work really, really hard. You know, some people say 10,000 hours, and I would probably say, like, 30,000 hours. Like, get after it and have fun. You know, at the end of the day, like, in music or art is meant to be enjoyed. That's the reason why you start it, not. Not for anything else. So try to enjoy the process, no pun intended.