Interview with Tuelo

3 (2m 7s): Hello. It is Adam. Welcome back to bringing it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieved stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to chat with Twello over zoom video, to all those born and raised in South Africa. She grew up in the deserts of South Africa on a cattle farm. She ended up moving out to the United States, moved to Connecticut at age 17, graduated early. She did homeschool. And so she graduated early, made it out to the United States to go to college in Connecticut. When she was there, she got a guitar and started writing songs. She eventually moved to New York city and that's where her music career really started. 3 (2m 50s): While in times square, she ran into someone else from South Africa that was like, I need somebody that can sing that's from South Africa that can sing. And that led her to so many other jobs ended up singing on the tonight show with David Letterman was on a Grammy award winning record and started her own project, 1200 and the cousins since then, she's just shortened it down to 12. And she has a new record out, which was written and recorded over the course of quarantine. She wrote a lot of the album all over the world. Actually, some of it in New York, some of it in Germany, some of it in Turkey and up shooting all the music videos in Colombia. And it's just been quite the ride. 3 (3m 30s): The is called the life of Margaret Cornelius and she tells us the meaning behind that. And a lot about her first song she ever wrote, which is on the record called killer. You can watch the interview at two ELO on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it backwards. It would be so awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik TOK at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this podcast on Spotify or apple music, apple podcasts, Google podcasts, it'd be awesome. If you follow us there and leave us a five star review, it means so much to us. 4 (4m 6s): I appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, 3 (4m 12s): We're bringing it backwards with two ELO. Well, this podcast is about you and your journey in music and how you got to where you are now. 5 (4m 21s): Well, 3 (4m 23s): I didn't say are you you're in New York? Is that what I saw earlier when I was reading up on you? Okay. Cool. Are you born and raised in New York? 5 (4m 30s): No. No. I'm south African actually migrated to New York. Yes. I grew up in South Africa and like desert areas of Africa. So if you ask me what, when South Africa it's not K-Town, it's not Johannesburg. It's not Durbin. It's just the desert. It's remote. It's near a country called what's Swana. Like I just grew up on, you know, on the phone. Yeah. And what was that like? 3 (5m 2s): What kind of farming did you do? Your family 5 (5m 6s): Cattle. Ranchers. It's a, it's a, it's a tribal thing. So I'm <em></em> but from South Africa and where capital Frances's in general. So, yeah, it was pretty, I mean, I, I still love the country, you know, I, I live in the city, but I'm like Trico at heart really. 3 (5m 32s): Was that a shock? That must've been a shock going to New York, right? I mean, from a little farm town. 5 (5m 40s): True. I sort of, I, I suppose I read a lot, so I already kind of read off on it. You know, I think I watched when Harry met Sally a million times, 3 (6m 0s): So you could kind of like knew you knew what you're in for when you got there. It sounds like 5 (6m 8s): No one knows what, 3 (6m 11s): Well, you knew there was going to be millions of people around here, I guess. 5 (6m 14s): Right, right. So that was very different even though still I'm kind of like a lone ranger. So in New York you can be, it can be amongst so many people and still be by yourself anyway. So yeah. So still it's, it's pretty magical. I think. I still think so now just like, oh my gosh. Yeah, that looks like a movie. Oh yeah. That scene looks like a movie. Oh my God. 3 (6m 40s): And they're all like all, probably in a movie at one time. Right. 5 (6m 49s): Robin movies, like to pick them to be, you know, exactly what new Yorkers are. 3 (6m 55s): What was it? So when did you move to New York? How old are you? 5 (6m 59s): About 17. I was in Connecticut first and then I moved to New York and I was just like, oh great. I love it. I really, really loved it. That's where I actually started writing for the first time, I think in Connecticut. Yeah. So when I got to us, I bought a guitar and I was just like, how can I get back that I can do what people do. Well, you know, they moved to whatever country and then I just like left it to gas and we just got totally forgot about it. And then 3 (7m 32s): You came to the states, the backpack. That's funny. Cause we, people from the United States used to go to Europe to do backpacking and it's like, you go to a big, go to a city and you're like, well, there's really nowhere to a lot, a lot, a lot of places, a backpack around the Connecticut New York. 5 (7m 47s): Well, I was just, I didn't matter. I'm going to do with like, people do that. When they go to another country, I was just like, I need a guitar. I just never happened. So yeah. It's pretty cool. It's funny now that you say that when I was in Germany, I'm at the store. So I find a TJ Maxx. It's called TK Maxx in Germany, in Berlin. 3 (8m 13s): Instead of TJ, max, it's called Tika. Is it the same type of sore? 5 (8m 16s): Same thing. Same thing. Just better clothes, better designer. You know, like you're in designer clothes. Right. And the gentleman there was like, oh my goodness, I love your dress. I was like, oh, you he's like, oh, you want safari? And I was like, I suppose, I mean, I was in Berlin. I was like, I'm from South Africa. I live in the us. And he was like, oh, that's such a beautiful dress. Are you on safari? And it was like, I guess so I agree. 5 (8m 58s): Sorry. I got up. I mean, I suppose you cool. I thought it was really gross because you visiting, coming to see Germans. I don't know. It really goes out. You know, I suppose when I was in Connecticut, I was on safari and American. 3 (9m 22s): I'm going to start using that instead of like, you know, some people say, I'm going to go on holiday. I'm going to go on vacation. I'm just going to start saying, I'm going to go on safari and see if people just pick that up. I like that. They're like, what the hell is this guy talking about? Well, prior to getting to Connecticut, I want to hear that story. But before that, were you into music at all? As far as like, were you singing, were you playing an instrument? Like what was, how did music surround you? 5 (9m 54s): So I grew up well with a lot of singing everywhere because I can sing really, really well. The beautiful thing is in general, like once you start a song, people will join you in harmony. And so I grew up with a lot of people in the house. My parents are in the church and like, there was always a lot of people there also community organizers and activists. So we go with a lot of people in the house and everyone's like, sign ready. Well, I actually didn't sing. I usually have an intense attitude when I'm in South Africa. So like, even with, you know, during the pandemic, I actually felt I didn't have a voice because I was quarantined inside Africa. 5 (10m 40s): So growing up. Right, right. Growing up, I didn't think I actually had a singing voice at all. So I just kept quiet and then I got to the U S and I was like, oh, well, he agreed. I can breathe. Okay. I suppose. And I just, I, I just wrote music to just release like certain things, just, you know, certain things in my life. And it was really, I always write in general, but I just like wrote my first, first song, first full song. 5 (11m 22s): And I was like, oh, I can write more. And that was killer, which is going to be on the upcoming record First full song I'd ever written and you know, what it wrote itself. So I was pretty happy. That was like everything, melody, you know, word lyrics all at once just wrote themselves, which was really great. So I was like, oh, I'm going to wait for something to show up. But you know, I, when I got to the U S obviously my, my voice caught, but my throat calmed down, I'm agnostic. 5 (12m 2s): I'm also like, I have a lot of allergies. And so I was like, okay, maybe I can tell a friend and ask a friend to sing this, or like ask a couple of people. And they were just like, like, you know, you gotta, you gotta write music, like, okay. Whereas I have to sing these so that they know, and kind of that's where it's, you know, it started for me in terms of writing. And then I just had all of these really great opportunities and it's because of lock ready because I sat African, some person needed a south African singer for whatever reason. And I showed up in the right place and I didn't know what I was doing. 5 (12m 45s): And they hired me to do some professional things. So it was really, really like, yeah. Cool. 3 (12m 52s): Well, I mean, how many people are from South Africa that can't sing? Right. 5 (12m 56s): Well, right. I 3 (12m 57s): Mean, I think, I mean, there are, I have a neighbor, I have a neighbor growing up that moved my, like three houses up from us. They're from South Africa. And they can say, 5 (13m 7s): I suppose, I mean, it really will try by day. 3 (13m 14s): I don't know. I, to be honest, I don't know. They live up like three or four houses up from my parents' house when I was growing up. I don't know exactly. They moved here. I mean, 5 (13m 25s): All like Africana quite have African 3 (13m 28s): From south they're South Africa. And I don't know where about, they moved here for their like, escaping what was going on there. I mean, at the time I don't, I don't know the whole backstory down the line. 5 (13m 43s): I say there's an, I've been gone too long. 3 (13m 47s): Yeah. So I guess there is a lot, a lot happening and they're like pretty worried and scared. And the company he worked for was able to, I don't know, he was able to get out and then he, it was difficult for him to find work in the states and he ended up, I don't know, it was, it's been a whole thing for them, but super nice family. 5 (14m 8s): It's been like that for a lot of people, but I mean, a good amount of also would I write where the experiences of my family and I, through that time, and to be honest, I, I was born at a later stage, you know, at the end of it. So yeah, it's a lot of, like, what I write also is, is about that. And in general justice issues. 3 (14m 36s): Sure. Yeah, because I mean, he was much older than me. I mean, their family is much older. I mean, they had to be 50. I mean, when they got here, it was like, yeah, exactly, exactly. 5 (14m 49s): That's a lot, a lot, a lot of that African as 3 (14m 51s): Well. Yeah. And there were able to make it to, they live in, we live in San Diego and they, they lived here or they blew a couple of houses up the street from my parents and they're great people and parties and our neighborhood or whatever. But yeah, it was interesting. I didn't really understand the story behind it. And one day he kind of told me like, yeah, like we, you know, had to leave and we were exiled from the country and now we live here and, and he was working like odd jobs just because it was hard to get work because I mean, he was, did something that I can't remember. I don't know. Anyway, he made it here and they've been here, my native parents neighborhoods for, for a while. 3 (15m 31s): But anyway, well, how did you get, what took you to the United States? Like w how did you, like, why did you choose to come to Connecticut? Like, what was that transition? 5 (15m 44s): Was I finished school worry, like farm kids do. I was homeschooled, so I'd put to school early, and then I kind of signed up for a six month, like college exchange thing. Yeah. So I just went to Fairfield university for a while. And then, yeah. And then I, you know, 3 (16m 10s): When you got there, did you, did you go to study music or did that kind of just happen? You said by like accident animals when somebody needed a singer. 5 (16m 19s): Yeah. That was completely by accident. I'd like, I just happened to be in times square and there was another south African, so they're not lots of south Africans in the us in general. I said, Africa is really far. No, one's like traveling any, anywhere far. So it was like, we kind of all know each other, or rather we find out about each other, like you said about this gentleman. And so she was the only other south African who spoke my language, like speak different languages. So I was like, oh my gosh, I, you know, of course. So once in a while, I'd meet up with her in New York city. 5 (17m 0s): And I just happened to be, to like, to be back in New York. And she was like, I'm with Neil to come and meet me at the Santa. And I just went to the spatter and that happens to be the Minskoff theater where like the lion king runs at all. Oh, wow. The lion king. Right. So she was there and she was auditioning for something. It wasn't for the lion king. It was for something else completely. And I just happened to be there waiting for her. And they were like, oh, come in, can you sing you South Africa? You can come this thing. And I was just like, no, not me. And, you know, the offer, everyone had gone through, they split, so came back and they were like, you should come and sing. 5 (17m 42s): You should try. You should just, you know, and so I went in and I signed for them and they hired me on the spot for like this really famous African trumpeter. Who's also exiled by the way, in the U S you must say gala. Right. And it was like my first ever professional gig. And I just got so many, like, opportunities for that, you know, people would be like, oh yeah, this, this still basically 3 (18m 7s): They did like Letterman. Right. And in different Grammy records, 5 (18m 12s): That's wild. That's going on. 3 (18m 19s): Yeah. Something that you totally weren't really going. I mean, really at the time pursuing a ma I would imagine. Right. 5 (18m 25s): Yeah. Not at all. I was just like, you know, once I learned how to play guitar, I was happy to like, you know, be like one of those people who goes to work and then on Friday plays at like the local bar, you know, and then just like, I, I think, okay. I would have been just perfectly fine to be like that type of a person. I was just like, okay, cool. I can tell, you can tell me, I can just like, play by myself then, you know, enjoy the things I write. But because of all of those opportunities, you know, people to start a booking, even getting 3 (19m 1s): Yeah. Interesting. And have you always been cause your, your, your sound is like more of like an all rock, like kind of a punk sound behind it. Have you always been into that style of music? 5 (19m 12s): I kind of always been, but never been in the spaces of, you know, so I felt like, I, I felt, I felt like when I first wrote killer, I wrote it in, in that style, you know, but it was like natural for me to write it that way. It's just that, you know, because I was hired by African musicians. I mean, if I can go up, like, you know, I make some, some money, just a normal person. And so, because of that, and also because I got to explore so much of that music, I was like, oh, maybe I should do that because I write this particular thing and Navy people won't accept me. 5 (20m 4s): Do you know, I was just going to all of these, like Africans are going to think, I don't know who I am, even though I think rock is African. 5 (21m 14s): So I was just like, I'm just doing this, this kind of thing, all the African music that maybe we're not like really concentrating on in particular, because I write from that perspective, even though it is rock, I think rocket comes from that, so, 3 (21m 33s): Oh, sure. I'll comes out of the blues and everything else. Right. I mean, it's all back. And, but yeah, I did. I didn't know, just because coming in from South Africa that too, I didn't know if there was a whole lot of rock and roll scene there, or you kind of embraced that when she got the United States. 5 (21m 51s): It's funny. I grew up in a place where there were these. It was like, there's like just a group of people who it's just a scene, you know, and they do their thing. And everyone was just like, those were kids. They were like all punk, really, really intense, you know? And it was a group of them and they were like leather jackets. And like, you know, and these are all like African children. I'm not talking about like white south African, like Africans and like, you know, and so they were always these, these, I thought, okay, people, but everyone was just like, oh, those kids are already bad because those kids are really bad kids. 5 (22m 41s): You're not, you know what I mean? And these just like blast music and hang out, you know, at this one guy's house. And it was just like, just really terrible kids. So you kind of didn't want to explore that even though you might've liked it, the music. So I just didn't, it didn't matter. I, you know, to me until I was just like, okay, now I can listen to what I want to now I'm a little bit grown up now I can play with, I want to play kind of thing. Yeah. It's not something that is not naturally, you know, music that people listen to. Not really in, in South Africa, but I do think that our traditional music is typically warrior music and rock reminds me of it. 5 (23m 29s): And so, so a lot of our writtens and poly rhythms and the way we tap our feet and like just mannerism in terms of when we, we played at traditional music, when we sing it at home and the way we depict it is just rock for me. Some people might be like, oh, it's just music. But for me it sounds, I hear it in that way. 3 (24m 3s): So, I mean, no, no, no, no. That makes sense. I mean, it's probably more an aggressive tone undertone behind some of it. I mean, I don't know. 5 (24m 14s): Not necessarily aggressive. 3 (24m 19s): Yeah. Sorry. That was wrong. I mean, not aggressive, but like, I don't know. Passionate. That's a good word. 5 (24m 30s): Yeah. Typically just really, really a lot of passion behind it and a lot of meaning behind it. And I find also that like rock tends to be that, you know, I was playing in Nashville and we like got a friend, Steven J push. He's also a musician, like, you know, put together like a drummer for us. And we would like rehearsing at his place. And the drama was like, oh, you know, when I first listened to it, I thought this is sad boy rock. And I was like, yeah, he's like, walk is emotion. Right. You can find every emotion for it. And I mean, like traditionally I grew up with very emotional music. 5 (25m 15s): So I was like, yeah, I suppose it is. Even though I'm a girl, but it's okay. 3 (25m 24s): That's funny. So you, did you write killer in when you're living in Connecticut or is that when you made it back down in New York? 5 (25m 33s): It was a first when I was living in Connecticut and then everything else is just like New York, you know? 3 (25m 38s): Okay. So you went from Connecticut to, why did you go down to New York? Just as a bigger scene there? 5 (25m 43s): Because I could walk, 3 (25m 45s): Ah, there you go. 5 (25m 47s): Yeah. You have to drive everywhere in Connecticut. But I remember once I bought this car from a friend of mine and after I got stuck, I decided that day, I need to figure it out to move to New York city, even though I really love New York anyways. Right. I, you know, I was like, I need to go now. I just like really long walking and New York city. Right. And I mean, I can think, you know, everything I cried. 3 (26m 25s): Yeah. You're not like I hate driving. To be honest. 5 (26m 29s): I hate driving. I hate driving anywhere in the world. I, I mean, New York, I can't even imagine. Which is like, why are people driving? Why do people want to buy cars in New York city? You know, it's just too much. 3 (26m 43s): It doesn't make any sense. Where are you going to park the thing? Right. 5 (26m 47s): I think on a snow day and you have to move the car and you have, 3 (26m 53s): I lived in San Francisco for like a few years. And the, like, the first thing I did was like, well, I'm selling this car, paying insurance and all this other crap on it. Like, and it's not even moving like, no I'm done and I have to move it. Just it and get towed, like get out of here. 5 (27m 10s): Yeah. Well, 3 (27m 12s): That's awesome. Well, you talked about, you were back in South Africa, like what for quarantine or something like, is that what you said? Okay. So tell me about getting from New York to back to why, why go back? Well, obviously, but aside from the fact that New York was like the absolute Mecca of everything that was happening at the time, and it was always on TV and you said you were asked, MADEC like, I'm sure that was just a whole combination of anxiety in itself. 5 (27m 37s): It was crazy. It was really good though, because like, we need a quarantee to make more music identity, to have content before the, you know, I wouldn't tell you, I have three albums ready. Now I can be like, Hey, I have three albums ready, which is huge, you know, for me. So even though I have a sole bank of that, we'd never have time to actually, you know, complete certain things and be ready and just be ready, you know? And so quarantee actually, so I supposed to be back, we came South Africa to record with an amazing guitarist. 5 (28m 21s): Yes. I told you, I come from the desert and he comes from the desert, same town. And then the amazing like drama. And he's a rocket, like if you've ever he's unbelievable. Like I do well, that guy is, I think Mr. Blake is amazing. He's like the most amazing guitarist I said to him, when you get to New York, you going to lead me, you, every band is going to want you, is this crazy? He's amazing. He has things. I dunno. He makes noises and sounds and melody, and it's shocking. So we had to come and record with him and the pandemic hit and I could see it coming. 5 (29m 5s): And so I was just like, okay, I'm saying I'd ha actually hadn't spent time with my family in a very long time. So I kind of stayed in, in South Africa and got really sick. But I mean, I just get sick in South Africa in general, which is sad, but you know, I try to manage it at some point. I did think my voice was gone. I was like, oh, I've been lying to people. They're going to find the out. I don't have a voice. You know, like I've been lying on long. So I was so afraid. And then I got back to New York. I was like, oh God, my voice is back. I look at that as a quarantine. 5 (29m 45s): That is that Africa. And then Kevin was here giving my co-producer and friend, brother. And so he came to Africa too. And then we went to Columbia to quarantine there and we did music videos in Columbia, in Murray, which was really cool. 3 (30m 4s): Whoa. You just sort of like, well, let's just go to Columbia. That sounds like a, was there a plan behind that? I mean, obviously I gotta come up with a reason to head there. 5 (30m 16s): So I D I don't know where they say visit time behind it. So the record itself, I written it going like to South Africa and I went to Ireland first, and then I wrote part of the record back, but I went to Turkey and then I wrote part of the record there. And then I went to South Africa and then we just like, okay, let's go to Germany. So we wrote good amount of songs in Germany, but in Belgium. And then like, you know, it just, I mean, I was in South Africa and then we just felt like, okay, I don't set Africa. 5 (33m 47s): And a lot of I'm doing a lot of work in, in mining, in South Africa and with like my family's minds and all the issues behind it and trying to resolve that. But it also became a law for me at the same time. So like once a calm down of a pandemic, calm down, just a tad. We also had this deadline of having music videos and figuring it all out. So we just, like, there were plans before the pandemic, believe me, Adam, we had class when all the plans disappeared, 3 (34m 26s): Let's regroup. 5 (34m 28s): What are we doing? So instead of like being back in New York, did I have to just like a couple of days to, to get vaccinated and then went to Columbia and yeah, just met really cool people that we just made videos 3 (34m 50s): Shot some videos. That's awesome. And so the rec the records coming out, what in 10 days or so the 11th, is that what I read? 5 (35m 0s): Okay. 3 (35m 1s): What's the story behind the title? 5 (35m 4s): Oh, life of Margaret Canadians. 3 (35m 11s): Oh 5 (35m 12s): Yes. So on the record is a song called say market, which is about my mother. Who's the same. 3 (35m 22s): She really that's awesome. 5 (35m 23s): She is unbearable. Everyone's eyes who she is. I mean, I grew up to be honest, I say, Yeah, she's really, really amazing person. And so I reasoned that song, having moved to the us and just like having trouble like struggling and just, you know, because I like, when I call my mother, I, everything comes out, you know what I mean? It says she, she doesn't have money or anything to give me, so to sort my problems out. But if I spoke to her, like every time I call her, I'm just like, okay, I'm going to survive. 5 (36m 6s): I'm going to survive New York city and just get up. So I have everything. So that's owns that. And my father's name is Cornelia, right? So normally like native Africans or rather native Africans in South Africa have the, like, we have our names, which are from our different, like ethnic, ethnic groups. But during apartheid people had to have equal Christian name. So, which is an English name. Rightly so. So my mother's name was Margaret . 5 (36m 47s): So I just written this, the record about leaving trouble, or rather getting away from trouble, like finding peace. Like the record in general is about that. About like, yeah. 3 (37m 6s): The struggle. Yeah. Finding peace in the struggle with been leaving South Africa Or just in general, just struggling 5 (37m 16s): In general. So there's a song called trouble, which actually sums up the whole record. So my tribe, which is Botswana is, are known to have left like war, like wars thousands of years ago with other tribes to move to the desert where no one wanted to live. So we chose the desert area with like now we just wanted to live just so that we don't fight with anyone. So we're not like fighters, we just, yeah. 3 (37m 51s): Leave me alone. 5 (37m 53s): And then when we got to the desert, we found diamonds and gold and all of these things. And so the record was written out of, because you know, we talk about this a lot just to say, like, you know, find your desert, you know, like leave the trouble, find your desert type of a thing. You might find great things, kind of a thing. So the records, yeah. As written out of that perspective, really? 3 (38m 20s): That is cool. That's wow. I mean, so be like, you know what, we're, we're, we're heading to the desert. Right. You know, we don't want to be around all this. And then the amount of resources and everything that you find there is unbelievable. It's like one of the most precious things that people, I mean, diamond, right? Yeah. People want you buy diamond for this big 10 grand. Wow. Wow. Wow. 5 (38m 48s): Yeah. So it was written like added that perspective, like that we grew up being told, you know, try and leave trouble. Just try and like, no, let it go move. 3 (39m 1s): Yeah. So was it therapeutic or writing the record? 5 (39m 7s): Yes. I write a lot. 3 (39m 9s): Okay. Oh yeah. You said you had like five albums ready, right? Or three albums ready 5 (39m 13s): Myself. I write a lot, like there's like eight records. Ready, ready. So I have that, but you just recorded three, 3 (39m 24s): The three already there. Aren't just the ideas. Like you went in and put down the three records or the material 5 (39m 30s): During the pandemic. Oh, wow. 3 (39m 35s): That's crazy. 5 (39m 36s): I know. It's so great. I'm so happy about because before I didn't have any, any content, anything to say, you know, we've got this, like, you know, so it makes me really happy, but just thinking about it, 3 (39m 55s): That is amazing. What are you most excited about for the record to come out? Cause I'm looking just on your Spotify that you have Canary out. That's like what? The only song from the record that's currently out. Right. 5 (40m 7s): We have trouble coming out as a single next week before the record. So that's really good. I'm looking forward to that, but just like in general, happier is a first song on the record. It also has like a, an intro to the, my kid. So it's just really, really cool. I'm looking forward to like having people enjoy it and you 3 (40m 34s): Know, just having it out there. 5 (40m 36s): How do you add that? And, yeah, it's pretty cool. 3 (40m 41s): Very cool. Sorry, my, I don't know what just happened here. And it's got all weird. I got a mess with my compressor. I think it just blew out a speaker, but it's all good. Can you hear me cell? 5 (40m 51s): If I can tattoos, what is that? 3 (40m 55s): It's from an album cover. It's just some weird heads and a chick holding a knife. And I don't know, weird faces, you know, when you're, when you're young and you know, hate the 5 (41m 8s): World, 3 (41m 12s): But then I have my grandfather's signature on my wrist so that it evens it out. Well. Yeah. Well, I appreciate your time to ALO I, this has been great. I have one more question. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists. 5 (41m 35s): You know, my advice is always be okay with the uncomfortable as you're okay with the really good 7 (42m 10s): They say to truly understand someone, you must walk a mile in their shoes.