Interview with Wolves At The Gate

4 (1m 27s): Hello! It is Adam. Welcome back to bringing it backwards. A podcast where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance to hang out with Steven of the band wolves at the gate over zoom video, Steve was born and raised in New Jersey, and we talk about how he got into music. First instrument. He learned how to play with the saxophone. He played that for a while and then saw a show with the blood brothers and against me watched the guitar player and was like, wow, like, this is awesome, but this is also something I feel like I could do. So he saved up his money, bought himself a guitar at 16, tried to start bands in Jersey, ended up moving to Ohio, just outside Dayton, Ohio to go to college, to play soccer. 4 (2m 14s): And there is where he started wolves at the gate. We talk about how the band formed getting signed to solid state records. The milestones of pretty much all their albums. The reason behind doing the acoustic versions of certain records all the way up until this most recent record, which is called eulogies. And we hear the story behind the entire album, how they're able to record it over quarantine and everything. The future holds for wolves at the gate. You can watch our interview with Steven on our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it backwards. It'd be awesome if you subscribe to our channel like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik TOK at bringing back pod. 4 (2m 55s): And if you're listening to this on Spotify or apple music, it would be amazing. You follow us there and hook us up with a five star review. 5 (3m 3s): We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts, wherever you listen to pod, 4 (3m 9s): We're bringing it backwards with wolves at the gate was Steven, how are you? I'm 6 (3m 14s): Good, man. How you doing? 4 (3m 15s): I'm doing well. I appreciate you doing this. Yeah, 6 (3m 18s): Yeah. You as well. 4 (3m 20s): Cool. I'm Adam, by the way. And this is about you and your journey in music. And we'll talk about the new record as well. Cool. Sweet. So I you're from Ohio. I, I believe that's what I read. 6 (3m 35s): Yeah. The band got started outside of date and I'm actually from New Jersey. Yeah. I went to college out there and once we started touring, I moved back to New Jersey to be close to my family. 4 (3m 49s): Right on real quick. What, what college do you go to? I'm just curious. 6 (3m 53s): It's called Seadrill university. Tiny, tiny private school. Yeah. 4 (3m 58s): Yeah. My parents lived in D oh, it was funny. My mom was pregnant with me like nine months pregnant and my dad's job got transferred from Dayton, Ohio to San Diego, California. So they moved and I know he worked for a company called NCR. It was like a software company. Yeah. And they moved him to San Diego. And then I was born like weeks later after they had gotten to San Diego, 6 (4m 23s): That's a good move. 4 (4m 25s): But apparently the, I mean, I'm going off on a rant here, but like, the story goes, like my dad had no idea where San Diego was and he like just looked in the map and it was like, was so far away from Ohio. And it was like on the coast and he's like, yeah, I'll move there. But anyway, we're still big Indians fans and all that. So Cleveland, but anyway, sorry. So you were born in New Jersey. You talk to me about that? 6 (4m 51s): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I spent vast majority of my life there wasn't until college that I went out to Ohio. I lived not far outside of New York city. It was pretty close to the George Washington bridge and the Jersey side. So, you know, pretty much the city setting was cool. I love it. I know a lot of people rag on New Jersey, but not all of New Jersey is Newark airport. That's what most people think, New Jersey 4 (5m 19s): And the music scene is huge there in Jersey. There's a lot of bands that came out of Jersey. Yeah. 6 (5m 24s): So many in so many different genres too. So yeah, like, yeah. And especially kind of growing up in like punk underground music at the time that I was really getting into music that was really growing too, you know, bands like a Thursday, my chemical romance taking back Sunday. 4 (5m 44s): Yeah. Like that whole, like that holy emo scene, at least in the early two thousands where all added. 6 (5m 51s): Yeah. And so for me, it was like so exciting because it's like, whoa. Bands from where I grew up are doing it, you know? And, and so I remember always hearing about them when it was like, you know, flyers, you know, locally billboards in New York. So it was pretty cool. I remember, you know, hearing about taking back Sunday when they were local in the, in the scene and my brother ended up working for Warner brother records for a short amount of time and they were signed to reprise, which was, 4 (6m 27s): Yeah. 6 (6m 28s): And I got to see them like backstage and like my mind was blown, you know? Cause I was like from a small town to see in that was 4 (6m 37s): Pretty cool. That's amazing. That's so cool. That's like the scene that I grew up liking and loving, I don't know how one of my buddies was like an early adopter to somehow finding music on the internet. And he stumbled upon that first taking back Sunday record and they were touring it and they came through San Diego. I don't remember seeing them and like just being like, whoa, like this is such a different cause at the time, like I w we weren't really hearing about what was happening too much across the whole country. I mean, bands like saves the day were getting bigger. Cause they had like radio hit a couple of he, I think he had the, the, in the funeral, whatever was out or one of the bigger songs, but like some of those smaller at the time, Dan it's like coming through at a Jersey, I was like, whoa, like lifetime was another one I remember hearing about. 4 (7m 25s): And just 6 (7m 26s): It's, it's so weird. How old are you? 4 (7m 29s): I'm 6 (7m 29s): 37 37. So I'm 35. We're like pretty close to age. Well, what's crazy though, is just how different, like, finding like the experience of finding music was for us as teenagers to the way it is today. Like, it was so easy to like, not know what guys in bands look like, or, you know, or even like what's going on across the country. That seems so archaic, but it's not that long. 4 (7m 57s): It really wasn't. I mean, finding bands, like I, I remember again, finding bands off of going to see a band and seeing what sticker they had on their guitar or whatever. It'd be like, oh, look, I wonder who that band is. If, if he likes that band, then they must be cool. So let me ask you to go check them out and figure out who they are or whatever. Yeah. It was just such a different process now than just like clicking a few clicks on Spotify and I'll be like, oh, recommended artists. Oh yeah. 6 (8m 22s): And that was the recommended artists on the guitar case. 4 (8m 26s): Word of mouth recommended ours. Yeah, exactly. It's crazy how that all changed. So that's red. So you were able to see a lot of those bands I'm sure. Perform at their very baby stages. 6 (8m 38s): Yeah. When they were, when they were coming up, you know, I only got to see them when they started playing like traditional venues, not like VFW halls and not that early, early, because I wasn't old enough to drive there myself. But yeah, I definitely knew it was going on and found their music, whoever I could, you know, which was schools, there were local record stores, which are another thing that don't exist anymore, But yeah, 4 (9m 6s): That's cool. That's really cool. How did you eventually, or how'd you get into music as a kid? 6 (9m 13s): Yeah. Like pretty musical family, you know, so it was always kind of going on. I played Alto saxophone in elementary school, in middle school, which was not formative at all, but I think, I think it was just going to a show and seeing a guy play guitar and just loving how that sounded. And so as soon as I saw it in, you know, bands like green day, you know, where, like I knew, I'm like, okay, I know that that's not easy, but I know it's not hard. I think I could do that. And so I just saved my money, bought a guitar and just taught myself to play green day songs then quickly jumped to Metallica. 6 (10m 1s): Cause that's the progression, you know, you go, 4 (10m 4s): You go hard. So like actual rifts. 6 (10m 7s): Well, I definitely, I was definitely running before I could walk. That was for sure. So it was, it was a little awkward, but you know, I had grown up listening to Metallica and Nirvana. And so those were the bands that I wanted to play their songs. So that was kind of how I got into music. Was this idea of like, yeah, I couldn't believe that I could make the same or similar sounds to what my favorite bands were doing. And then from there, that's where I was like, I wonder if I could do this myself. You know, I want to make, I want to make my own stamp per se. 4 (10m 44s): When you got the guitar, how old are you and when you saved up for it, 6 (10m 48s): I was probably 16 years old. Okay. 4 (10m 53s): Yeah. So you have been playing saxophone for a while. Did you continue that in high school? Like in the marching band or anything? 6 (10m 60s): Once I, once I got the guitar, the saxophone section, yeah. 4 (11m 4s): Okay. It never came back. 6 (11m 7s): Yeah. Well it was just, it felt like the guitar felt alive to me, you know? And obviously there's people who grab a saxophone and that instrument feels alive to them, but the guitar felt alive to me. It's like when I grabbed it and started playing it just like passion came out like a passionate about it. I played saxophone because I had been, if that makes sense. 4 (11m 29s): Okay. You mentioned seeing somebody play guitar on stage in being like, oh, I could do that. Like, do you remember what band you saw? 6 (11m 37s): Yeah. It was a band called against me 4 (11m 41s): That van too. They've made some changes. 6 (11m 45s): Yeah. I saw them at the Bowery ballroom in New York city with the blood brothers and in, yeah, I was just, I was just kinda blown away by what I was hearing, obviously the sound, the energy, you know, nothing sounded perfect because I knew I wasn't the best guitarist. I knew I liked singing, but I knew I wasn't very good. And I was like, man, these guys are just real and raw and nothing's perfect. And that, that works for me because I'm not so 4 (12m 19s): Sure. Yeah. Those early against me shows were so good at like when they released like reinventing Axl rose and those when you'd see them, I don't know how big that venue is, but I remember seeing them in like these rooms that was like 150 people and just kids were going crazy. 6 (12m 33s): Yeah. And I hadn't really, I didn't, I didn't even, I only knew a little bit of the blood brothers. I had just gotten into their record burn piano island burn. And I was like, this was like one of the wildest things I'd ever heard. I'm like, I got to see this. And then I found against me from that show because they were the headliner. So I started listening to their music cause that clicked with a lot of stuff I got into earlier, you know, it has like, cause I liked the Dropkick Murphys growing up too. And it has kind of like that, you know, Irish, Boston, like 4 (13m 9s): Sort 6 (13m 9s): Of vibe to it, you know? And so yeah, it was just, that was just kind of my experiences. Like you go to a show to see one band and then you find another, or you're like you said, the guitar case of your favorite guitar player you like for me, I loved thrice growing up. They were like, they're probably my favorite band and they had hot water, music stay home song. So I found them and I'm like, I love this band. So, 4 (13m 38s): So cool. Like talking to somebody that same age bracket and like, like, oh that was so me. You're just doing it on the east coast. That's so awesome. That kid I was telling you about that was like some early adopters to the internet. He's the one that introduced me to blood brothers too. He's like, you gotta check out this band. And we went and saw them at some place in San Diego called the CIG cafe, which was like a little, it was more of like a hipster place and they played there and it was I'm like, this is crazy. Like that style of music I'd never heard before until you know, some of those bands started to come around. 6 (14m 12s): Yeah. Yeah. That's 4 (14m 13s): Cool. That's awesome. So you, did you start a band at this point? Like after you get the guitar and start playing a bit or did not? Not later 6 (14m 22s): I tried, I'll put it down. I tried really hard to start a band. Yeah. It was either, either the songs I was writing. Weren't very good. Or I just couldn't find guys to play music with. And so like, I'd find like a drummer and a basis or I'd find a guitarist and a singer, but like never a full band. And to them it wasn't the, the passion wasn't there either, you know? Like Iceland wanted like a hobby. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, oh, this is cool. You know? And like we would like jam, but they never wanted to play or so things never really surface. I just, but I kept writing, you know, cause I just, I loved music. And so I just wrote and wrote until I was probably my, it was my junior, junior year of college is when I started wolves at the gate. 6 (15m 11s): And that really the first band I was in and started and still the only, wow, my one and only, you know. 4 (15m 23s): Yeah, that's cool. That's amazing. I mean, wow. But I mean, did you go to college then for me? Like why, what took you to Ohio? I mean, were you going to, for a specific reason to that school? 6 (15m 35s): Well, so At that point, I had two passions, music and soccer. 6 (18m 48s): And so, you know, I, I wanted to play soccer in college and had opportunities to, to play, you know, at a number of different places. But I just ended up choosing the school that the school that I went to cause I love the guys on the team. Cause that's what I loved about this. You know, I, I love the sport, but I also, I know how enjoyable it is when you're with guys that you like and how not fun it is when you're with people you don't like. And so, yeah, I just really connected with them and you know, I had an opportunity. I had opportunities to play at good schools that were local, but I kind of wanted to get out a little bit and just kind of go somewhere. 6 (19m 34s): No, I didn't know anybody, no ties kind of like a fresh start. And so that's what led me out there. I didn't go to school for music. I actually, I taught high school history for one year before we got signed. Yeah. So that's why I got my degree in was secondary. Ed was a high school history teacher and coach soccer at the, the school that I did my student teaching at. And then we got, then we got a contract on. Yeah, well I'm going to go do this. 4 (20m 7s): I was just reading a little bit about you guys. And you said that you're talking about the new record and the quote that I saw and you talked about tearing your ACL and that was, was that in that same, like when you're going to college playing soccer, is that what kind of ended the soccer career for you? 6 (20m 25s): Yeah, so that, that happened the year after I graduated, I was still trying to play in what were called like professional development leads. You know, you don't, you don't make any money, but they're opportunities to get seen and scouted and yeah. And I, you know, I was still working and playing and I, yeah, I tore my ACL and my meniscus and I just remember laying on the field, you know, throwing, okay, this is, this is something, you know, and I knew it was going to be like, it was going to change things a lot, you know? 6 (21m 6s): And so that was, it was pretty, I don't know. It's just probably the grace of God that I didn't just completely like lose my mind. But I just remember having a lot of, yeah. Having a lot of peace during that time going, okay, this is what it is. I've been so fortunate to not get injured, like my whole career, you know, playing for, you know, 15 years at least. And so I was like, I guess this is it, you know? 4 (21m 33s): Yeah. But still, I mean, that's gotta be crushing, obviously. That's what you've been working at and you're, you probably thought that's what you were going to do. Right. If the opportunity arose. 6 (21m 43s): Yeah. But what was interesting though at the same time was, you know, I'd always loved music. It just didn't ever seem like music would be a thing for me, you know, because it took so long to even like start my first band. But at that point, my passion for music was growing because I finally had a band, we were writing songs. Like we were like touring, you know, kind of locally. And 4 (22m 9s): Okay, so you guys were kind of going at this point already and you're still just doing soccer and teaching. It was just all happening at once. 6 (22m 15s): Yes. I've in a lot of plates and that one fell. Yeah. So it was, it was definitely a little crushing. And you know, the reality is too is like, you always take for granted the things that like, you've not, you've never lost. Right. You know, I never, I never had any injury like that and I'd never been so like needy independent either, you know, my dad flew out and he took care of me for a while. Cause I couldn't do anything. I couldn't drive. You know, it's a pretty hard recovery surgery wise, you know, without like sounding weird. But like my dad had to help me get to the bathroom and help me get in the shower, you know? 4 (22m 57s): Well, yeah. I mean, you have no soul. If you moved there, your family's all in Jersey, you have no support. As far as that goes. It's like, what do you do? You're stuck. 6 (23m 6s): Yeah. And so it definitely just showed me like a different, you know, we all know that like life is frail and it can be taken at any moment or like your strength or anything, anything could happen. But the reality of it really like set in for me there. And it was really humbling in a very good way because you know, when you're younger and strong, you think nothing can stop you. And then you find out is this little tendon in your leg that stop you pretty quickly, I can 4 (23m 36s): Take you out. Right, exactly. 6 (23m 39s): I was like, wow, I'm not, I'm not as indestructable as I saw. It's so stupid. But like, those are the things that you don't ever think about when you're young and lacking in wisdom, you know? 4 (23m 53s): Right. Right. I mean, why wouldn't you? Right. You're just like, ah, I'm good. I'll if I fall and hurt myself, I'll get better. It's not a big deal. 6 (24m 0s): Other people that get hurt and injured. 4 (24m 6s): Oh wow. Well tell me about starting the band. So the band was already going at this point when you hurt yourself. Okay. So when's the, you said the band started your junior year of 6 (24m 14s): College. Yeah. Yeah. My junior year. How did 4 (24m 17s): You meet the guys in the band and how did that forms? 6 (24m 20s): Yeah, so our original drummer, he played, he played on the soccer team with me. He was, he was an incoming freshmen who, you know, the upperclassmen, we, we started to take the, the underclassman under our wings and kind of like show them the ropes and found out he played the drums. And I found out that he liked good music too, because I would find musicians that they would like, you know, like Dave Matthews, band, not right. 4 (24m 43s): There's nothing that you would want to play. 6 (24m 47s): And so, yeah, I was just like, I was like, Hey, you wanna come over? And I could show you some songs I wrote, would you want to write some drums to it? And he's like, yeah, of course. And I had no idea, but he was like a freak on the drums. He's so good. And so things kind of like catapulted from there because I just kind of felt like, you know, he was way better. I felt he was way better at his instrument than, than I was at mine. And I was like, I need to get some guys and we need to get this going. And so then who was our basis? You know, he lived down the street from me and I was just like, I literally like told Ryan said, Hey, hold on. I gotta go get a bass player. 6 (25m 27s): And I just like ran down the street and told Ben, I was like, Hey, do you want to join my band? He's like, you have a band. I was like, 4 (25m 36s): Yeah. 6 (25m 39s): Yeah. So it was just kind of a series of those events. Like guys, I knew played instruments that I was like friends with Jeremy who, you know, they were just guys that I went to college with. And like I knew like similar bands and we honestly didn't know each other that well, but we knew each other well enough that I knew they liked the same kind of music and that's just kinda how it started. And we just would play, I had a house in college that I lived at with a bunch of guys and we would have house shows that were just insane, you know? I mean, just like packing out like a standard house with like a hundred people, you know, like the floors were like buckling and it was, it was insane and it was insanely loud. 6 (26m 27s): I don't think anybody got anything out of like sonically out of the experience apart from just lots of symbols and 4 (26m 35s): Going crazy. I'm 6 (26m 35s): Sure. Yeah. And so that's what kind of like help us get our feet wet and drummed up some excitement about band cause where the school was. It's a sleepy town, it's a college town. So it's like the town exists because there's a college, you know? So from there, you know, we made our way out to date and started playing shows there and then made our way out to Cincinnati and Columbus. And it kind of just kept kind of growing from there, which was a little surreal for me to be honest. So yeah. 4 (27m 7s): So you just kept, it was at that point though, it was just kind of a thing you guys were doing as you're obviously taking it seriously, but you had a job and you were coaching soccer and all this was happening at the same time that the band is going. 6 (27m 20s): Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, we, we, we kind of kept going and w you know, none of us had ever really, none of us had really been in a band before either, you know? And so we didn't know like, what you're supposed to do. None of us were actually from that area. So we didn't know like the local scene. So a lot of it was just, we just handed out CDs for free, like candy. We played anywhere that they would Le I mean, we played some of the weirdest places, you know, just like any band would tell you, you know, back of tattoo parlors, you know, back pizza shops, VFW halls, church auditoriums, you know, we were anywhere and everywhere. 6 (28m 2s): And so we just gained some traction that way. And then we recorded an EAP that we kind of thought would like be the end, because we'd never recorded like an actual release. We just recorded like bunches of songs. And we put that out in, this was like in the Limewire, you know, they downloading music that way on, you know, pirate sites. And, you know, we sold a ton online, which we couldn't believe. Like we didn't, you know, you don't know how many people actually listened 4 (28m 34s): To you and they found it online. Mar 6 (28m 37s): Yeah. Like why w well, we had tons of downloads online where I remember seeing that going, like, man, if even a fraction of these people bought the record, like we could actually the real money. Right. 4 (28m 48s): But how are people finding it just off touring around Ohio 6 (28m 51s): That, and it's just, that was just the, the age of like anything that got released, got pirated and thrown into like Limewire, things like that. That was a time where that's the, you found bands. It was like a Napster, you know? And so yeah, we self released the record. And from that, we got, yeah, we got label interest from the EAP that we thought would be the last thing we do, to be honest, we thought let's just do this. And then we can go on with our, you know, our adult lives. 4 (29m 24s): Yeah. 6 (29m 25s): Real, real job life. And then yeah, we got, 4 (29m 28s): Wow. And that's when stalled state you signed you. 6 (29m 32s): Yeah. Yeah. They, they were kind of like the last one to the party with the, with the label talks. And I just, yeah, just connected with the people. They're probably the best. Cause you know, that's something that's pretty important to me is I just want to feel, I want to like the people and feel like I could trust them. And that's how I felt about the people there. So 4 (29m 53s): That's cool. Well, how, what year was it when you tore your ACL? Is that record out yet? I'm just curious to kind of see how that goes, how that fell in line with touring everything. 6 (30m 6s): Yeah. Well, what happened was, I'm pretty sure I tore my ACL and it was, we were doing, we were having talks with the label at that point. I don't remember because I remember they were like, well, you know, you guys need to find a booking agent. And I remember then they sent a couple of booking contacts out to come watch us play. And I was in like a full leg cast because that was the only way, like, we're like, we gotta, like, we gotta do this showcase for this, these booking agents. And like, I probably shouldn't have done that, but I did. And I remember my leg being in terrible pain afterwards because it's supposed to stay elevated. 6 (30m 50s): Cause this was like pretty fresh, maybe like three, four weeks. I just remember all the blood rushing to my leg. 4 (30m 56s): Oh my God. Yeah. I can't imagine. 6 (30m 59s): And like just kind of just trying to vibe off that, that pain, you 4 (31m 2s): Know? 6 (31m 5s): So it was like soon after that. Yeah. So yeah, 4 (31m 9s): You got to say, then you signed with solid state and you put another EPA before you put out your record, the first record, 6 (31m 16s): They re-released the EAP that we had self released, which is called, we are the ones. And then the, then we did like soon after that we did a proper, full length, which was 4 (31m 27s): Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That one came out before, back to school. I was confusing myself. Okay. So w and that record is awesome. Right. It comes out and it's charting on billboard. Like, what was that like? 6 (31m 41s): Weird. I honestly, I didn't know what a lot of that stuff meant. Like, oh, you turned on the billboard. I'm like, not the real one though. Right? Like, that's just what I assumed, but it was the real cause the real one, it's like, you know, 4 (31m 55s): You're thinking like the hot 100 charters. 6 (31m 58s): Well, I'm thinking like, people like slash are on the billboard, you know, We'll split the gate from Cedar Ville, Ohio, you know, 4 (32m 8s): You know, you were though. 6 (32m 10s): I know that just, I think that's just like the that's kind of the way that we operate is kind of like in expect nothing and then anything's exciting, but we're also kind of skeptical. Like, do they like, are they sure that we were on there? So yeah. It was super cool. Yeah. You're just in this day and age, you don't really, you have metrics and things, but like, you don't really know who's listening. Like who's like a real listener, you know, a stream. Yeah. Somebody may have listened for three minutes and gone. That was terrible. You know? So I don't 4 (32m 45s): Think they'd stick around for three minutes 6 (32m 50s): Anyway. Yeah. So yeah, it was, it was really cool. And it was exciting. Honestly, our highest aspiration was to just record in a real studio. That was our highest aspiration was that, and to tour the country. And so yeah, to get to do any of that stuff, felt like mission was already accomplished. So it was, it was, yeah, it was exciting for sure. We just didn't know what it meant honestly. 4 (33m 13s): Right. Like once you signed this record deal and you put out an album with them, are they putting you on tour with some of the artists that they had on their roster? Or like, was the booking agent doing that actively for you? Like 6 (33m 26s): Out of Ohio? Yeah. Well, and so that's what, once the record came out and, you know, we, we, we didn't have like a proper booking agent and one, but once the record came out, that's when, you know, we were actually able to have those conversations with booking agents. It's like, Hey, you know, people will come if we, if we play there because we're album selling. So that's what then got us on, you know, opening up for national tours and things like that. So it was the 4 (33m 59s): First Victoria you guys had a chance to do, 6 (34m 2s): Oh, it was a wild one. You know, something, something about our band is American 0 (34m 8s): In corn farmers, a proud and chosen profession, inspired through generations, tested, resilient, and committed to giving back as much as they're growing, pushing the boundaries of what's possible with every bushel while replenishing every increasingly precious resource, like the reduction of soil loss by 40%, with every acre grown in a world where sustainability matters more than ever, we need to all the help we can get. And there's no greater resource than the capable hands of American corn farmers. 8 (34m 38s): How easy it is to file a claim with Geico, we hired a nature show, host 9 (34m 42s): Your habitat of a suburban driveway to pool. A victim of a broken windshield is left assessing his vehicle. 8 (34m 48s): Well, not true. If he's got Geico, he can file a claim online over the phone or with his handy mobile app. 9 (34m 53s): , he'll suddenly be left to fend for himself awaiting his terrible fate. 8 (34m 57s): Nope. Google will assign him a designated claims team to help him out to 9 (35m 1s): Because Alex gets his car fixed and everything. Wow. Nutraceutical, 8 (35m 5s): Geico, great service without all the drama. 6 (35m 8s): We sometimes find ourselves in the middle of Janrus. You know, a lot of tours we'd be on. We're like not nearly heavy enough. And then other tours we'd we behind we were be like really heavy. And the first tour we did was with Bournville Cyrus, unearth the contortionists and obey the brave. And wow. We were the only band that had singing, let alone, you know, not being, not being very heavy. And there were more like metal fans. And so it was definitely, it was hard. The bands were really cool to us. 6 (35m 49s): You know, we learned a lot from hanging out with those guys. They were very welcoming, you know, but it was good because it just teaches you to like, all right, you have to win an audience. And sometimes the audience could care less about your music, you know, and your style. And so it was, it was a really good experience. Definitely caused us to think about like, we really need to own what we're doing, even if people didn't show up to hear that. If that makes sense. 4 (36m 18s): No, definitely. Definitely. And after that, you've put out, when you put out your next record, five or five by five, I'm like you did that record. And then to jump ahead a second, you put out an EAP of acoustic versions of some of those songs, right. From the first two records. And then you've done that a couple of times now. Correct? Like what, like what was the re well, tell me a little bit about five by five and like, what would be a big milestone from that record before we jump ahead? 6 (36m 49s): I think so on that record was, I think one of the first times I felt like there were certain songs that I felt like I was really nailing what I'd set out to do creatively. Like there's a song called the burdens snake on that record. That is still like probably one of my favorite songs I've written because I love the idea of, of a song sonically and lyrically telling a story, you know? And I felt like I, I like captured something I'd always wanted to create and always kind of felt like, you know, not like you don't like the songs you made, but like, you're like, okay, this is like really close to what I was trying to deliver, but I know it's not, it's not quite there yet. 6 (37m 38s): You know, being inspired by artists like, like thrice. Like I feel like, you know, Dustin is a really good lyricist and also the band is really good at like composing music that like, it's almost like a soundtrack to the story. You know, it kind of follows the movements of the story arc. And I just thought that was such a cool thing. And I felt like on that record, I was able to accomplish that more. So that was, I would say it was a creative sort of milestone. 4 (38m 8s): Yeah. And with that though, so you put that record out and then you decided to go, you guys decided to put out the CP of acoustic songs. What was the reasoning behind that you just think it would be cool to do? 6 (38m 20s): Yeah. People have been asking us to do that, but also, you know, I that's where a lot of the songs come from, you know, like our music's aggressive and have you guitars, but I, I did, I want to strip back the layers and kind of like, yeah, help people see like the heart of the song that is there, you know, behind, you know, behind all of the, you know, loud, you know, guitars and aggressive drums and stuff like that. And so I always, I had very pivotal, like, yeah, there were songs from bands that they did acoustic that like completely changed my mind even about the band let alone the song itself. 6 (39m 4s): And so I thought that was such a cool experience to be able to like, enjoy a song twice, you know, for two like different reasons. And so, yeah, we just wanted to give that to our fans. Cause I felt like I love getting that experience and I wanted to give that experience. 4 (39m 21s): I love that that's I feel the exact same way. And it's cool that you said you were right. The songs on acoustic guitar. A lot of it starts that way. Cause like, you know, if, if you could play a song on an acoustic guitar around a campfire and it's a great song, it's still, you know, that's kind of like, isn't that what they say? They kind of gauge it that way, where like, if you can take it in a heavy, crazy song and they break it down into an acoustic version, like it just, it's just such a different feeling. And I love it when heavy bands do that when they go, okay, we're, we're going to put out an acoustic version of the song because it's just like a totally different take on, on the original version. 6 (39m 59s): Yeah. And you know what, I, I learn a lot too when I have to dissect songs we've written. Cause honestly I realized like weak points, you know, it's like, oh, okay. I get why I did this portion of the song this way. But I think I might've done it just because I loved the guitar part, but it wasn't really serving the song because exactly what you said, you know, at the end of the day, you know, that is what, that is, what people that is, what people connect with when they're listening to music is that, that heart of that song. And so if I can figure out how to do that, but keep the same packaging that we love, which is kind of making like rock aggressive music. That'd be super cool. 4 (40m 39s): Yeah. And if they can go home and play it on their guitar and try to sing it to them yeah. To themselves in their bedroom or whatever, it's just like even cooler. Right. And then it's like, and I can go home and I can play this or try to play this or just listening instead of having to have five other people that are on the equals page as me to do a version of it or whatever. 6 (40m 59s): Yeah. Totally. 4 (40m 60s): That's awesome. What would you say like for types of shadows and again, same question. What would you give a milestone about that record? 6 (41m 9s): So for that record, I decided that I wanted the whole, the whole album to revolve around that idea of story each. So each song is a different story and the hope was that each song musically and lyrically kind of carried a story arc some 4 (41m 29s): Kind of a concept throughout the whole record. Yeah. 6 (41m 33s): Okay. And so the, in the idea of types and shadows is like all the songs are types and shadows of telling kind of the story of how I've come to understand what grace is. You know, I was, I was brought up, I was brought up in a Christian home, but to be honest, I don't think I understood grace as a working, which is, which is, you know, kind of like religious duties, you know, you can receive love and that's not what it is like, that's just a total redefinition of the term. And so I wanted all the songs to kind of revolve around this idea of what, how I'd really come to understand what grace is, is that it's unmerited favor and kind of these beautiful pictures of, you know, the darkest honestly parts in my own life or in my own heart in ways that I, I was shown grace despite those things. 6 (42m 36s): And also I'm using examples of people we've met on tour, you know, in conversations and also guys in the band, the conversations we have in the van in between shows, you know, you know, we're, we're having plenty of heart-to-hearts in the van, you know, 4 (42m 53s): Each other all the time. 6 (42m 55s): Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, so that was, that was like, that was, yeah, I really enjoyed that process. Although it was probably one of the harder processes because at that, like while I was in the studio, so banner basis was getting married. And I remember I had to just take a couple day break from being in the studio to go fly to his wedding. Cause I was a groomsman in his wedding, our bass player. And when I drove home just to like say hi to my wife and get ready to fly out, she told me that we're having twins. And I was like, I was like out, like there was a lot like, you know, I was still I'm a groomsman or I'd make sure my, my suit fits and then I gotta get back and finish this record. 6 (43m 46s): And then she's like, yeah, we're going to have twins. And I'm like too. Oh good. My wife's, my wife's had triplets. So it wasn't a okay. It wasn't as shocking, but I just wasn't ready for that news at all. And she was like, she was kind of like trembling too. Cause I think it's, you know, it rattled her. Well, she said we're ha she's pregnant. I didn't know it was twins at that moment. But when we would go on to find out it was twins, 4 (44m 17s): I didn't even know she was pregnant at this point. So you come home and she tells you, you're going to have, you're going to have a kid waiting for your leaving and you've got the studio mind and everything else. Okay. 6 (44m 25s): Yeah. I felt bad. Cause I was like, I'm leaving you. I'm like hooray I to get to the airport. 4 (44m 33s): Yeah. Wow. 6 (44m 35s): And I couldn't tell anybody. So I was like seeing like so many of my best friends and it was still early, so I couldn't say anything. And so I was kinda like, you know, kind of like beaming on the inside and they're like, everyone's like, what's new. And I'm like, can't tell you yet, but I want to, 4 (44m 51s): Yeah, I do. I have two kids myself. And I remember that like not, you have to like, wait, I mean, I understand why you wait, but it's like, it's so hard not to just tell everybody I know, man. Did it, do you feel like that any, like you had to come back then and finish the record that here you're working on, did you feel like any of that those emotions were able to spill out into the, that album or were you pretty set on what that record had? Like the baby that was going anyway? 6 (45m 21s): I think, I think like the thing, honestly, the thing I thought about, cause I hadn't tracked vocals yet, but the thing that I did think about while I was tracking vocals for that record was like, I have, I'm going to have a kid who's going to like hear my voice on a record. You know? Like it just kind of blew my mind, you know, because to me like, it's like every record we make, it's just so cool that we get to record music and you know, like I built a home studio in here and I report I've recorded our last few records here, you know, it's just so awesome. It's so cool that that can be done. And I was just like, yeah, I was just, I don't know. 6 (46m 2s): It just made me think like I want to make sure whatever I'm creating. Like I'm going to be proud. Like I'm going to be proud to show my kids and that they understand, you know, the work that goes into it, but also like the passion and the meaning behind what we do, you know, that I wasn't just like, I'm trying to fulfill some like childhood dream, you know, like I really want to do something impactful for people. And so yeah, it definitely like made it just like little Wade year for me in a good way. So yeah. And it's cool because we'll see the gate is now called daddy's songs in my head. 4 (46m 41s): Oh, I love that. That's cool. That is cool with that though. I mean that must've been harder to tour and get, keep the band going once now, your wife's pregnant and not that you're gonna have twins and now it's, you know, family stuff. How did you adapt to the, that LA? 6 (46m 58s): Yeah, I remember calling, I called our manager first and told him and I said, I was like, Corey, to be honest. I don't know. I don't know what this means. I don't know if this means we'll never tour again. I don't know if this means we'll never make another record. I don't, but I was like, what I do know is I love music. I want to keep making it, but I need to be a good husband and dad. So just be patient with me while I figure it out. And I told the label the thing and you know, it's kind of weird because all this was happening. You know, my kids were, my kids were born when that album released. And so I couldn't really go out on tour. 6 (47m 41s): We had, 4 (47m 41s): Oh, when you, when you released the record, cause it looks like you put it out in November and your kids were born at that. And then yeah. How do you support the album? 6 (47m 51s): Yeah, they were born in October, so yeah. You know, I had the record comes out and I had one month old twins, you know, I was like, I can't go anywhere. You know, because my wife had twins and it had to be a C-section. She was, you know, she was on bed rest before, you know, she was on like one month bed, rest leading up to the delivery and then like, like another two, three weeks or even, yeah. So like I was, I was running the show, you know, 4 (48m 27s): What do you want to call it? That, 6 (48m 28s): Yeah, I was making the meals. I was doing all that stuff and trying to put out a record, 4 (48m 34s): Obviously you couldn't have been gone for a month 6 (48m 38s): Now. And so we, we, you know, we're not, we, we weren't going to announce anything. You know, we aren't going to say hiatus because we just didn't know. He had no idea. And so it was like, let's just ride this out. And you know, my wife, she's like, you know, she's awesome. Really supportive, really strong. Also really like into what we're doing. Like she's, she's invested. She came out on tour, like when we first got married, she came out on tour and she loved that. And she, you know, she, she wrote dogged. It w there was no pampering, you know, she, she, she acted like she was part of the crew, which was amazing, you know, and she misses it, you know, which is, it's hard anytime talking about touring, she's just like, oh, I miss I miss going out. 6 (49m 26s): And I'm like, yeah, it's pretty special to, to enjoy it that way. So yeah, we eventually just kind of like navigated our way back to figuring out what's sustainable. And yeah, I'm really grateful for that because yeah. I honestly thought, yeah, maybe this is the last record we do. And I also wondered would the label want to do more records with us too? So 4 (49m 53s): Yeah, obviously it worked out right. You put a record out again in 2019. And were you able to tour that album enough? I mean, where were you when the pandemic happened? 6 (50m 5s): Yeah, so we were able to do, we were able to do, I think, like three tours off that record, you know, the cause, so yeah, 2019, it was 2020 when we were, when the lockdowns got instituted. Right. In this case. 4 (50m 23s): Yeah. It was like March. So I mean, people were putting records out. It's like, how much of that was taken from you? I mean, as far as like the album cycle went. 6 (50m 32s): Yeah. So thankfully like our record, our record was, it was out that summer. We ain't got to do some touring and we were slated to do a tour right around March and then the lockdowns happened. And so that got canceled. Yeah. And so it did definitely, it was a little bit of a bummer, you know, situation, but thankfully I felt like we got enough in to as much as we could in that time period. I mean, the release and locked down. So, you know, there were other bands that had it way worse than us. So 4 (51m 4s): It's home and everything at this time, when that all stopped, it was like you were trying to rush back from Europe, or 6 (51m 10s): I know, I know in some of my friends were on the road and what a crazy thing to deal with, you know, and we had just, we'd finished out the year at a festival and in Germany at the end of December, you know, and I remember thinking like this, you know, this isn't good, you know, we might not be able to get back. We got back, which was good. And yeah, it was just a weird time and really weird. 4 (51m 39s): And you, you put out another Hoosick record over 2020. Was that kind of, because you had time on your hands, was it like, oh, let's go back and do some of these songs acoustic again, or was that already the plan? Anyway, 6 (51m 53s): You know, it's always in the back of my mind to do, to do that with any, anything that we released, but it had been, it had been two records since we had done the last one, you know, two full lengths. And so I was like, you know, Hey, we got the time nobody's going anywhere. And you know, we can DIY you know, a lot of the engineering side of things. So yeah, I, I recorded everything at my studio except for the acoustic guitar, Joey, our other guitarist. Who's super talented engineer himself. He recorded the acoustic at his house in San Diego. That's where he lives. 4 (52m 30s): Oh, that's where from, I probably told you that now I understand the Tim B6 connection. It's all coming together now. Okay. Yeah. 6 (52m 41s): So that's, that's 4 (52m 43s): Cool. So you, so you, he was recording at his house in San Diego and sending it to you and your, are you still in Ohio? Are you in Jersey, Jersey? Yeah. Okay. Wow. Okay. And you were able to work remotely. How was that? 6 (52m 57s): Yeah, I mean easy. Yeah. Yeah. Joey, Joey's super easy to work with. You know, he and I, we had just produced, we just self produced the clips, you know? Yeah. In 2019 together. So it was, this was a much easier task to undertake, you know, less songs, you know, less, you know, stuff involved, you know, a lot less editing, involved, stuff like that. So, you know, it was a matter of, you know, he tracked the acoustic and everything else I did was just on the electric and then all like synths and stuff like that. So I built it all on the computer and then just track locals right here. 4 (53m 40s): That's right. And what about the new record eulogy? Is that from done in your house to, 6 (53m 45s): Yeah. Yeah. So really? Yeah. So we did drums in, in Bethesda, Maryland with Taylor Larson, that mixed wave studio. I actually, we were the first band to record it at his new studio that he built and I'd actually built a home studio for Taylor. It was like right before lockdown, he was just telling me, cause he mixed the clips and he was telling me, he's like, man, it'd be really awesome just to have like a place that I can mix at my house if I just want to get out of the studio. And so I, you know, I built a studio for him at his house and soon after the lockdown hit and he was able to work cause he wouldn't have been able to get into the studio cause all the studios were closed. 6 (54m 34s): And so he and I had been in touch, you know, and he was deciding to once the, you know, the, the lockdowns got lifted, he built this massive, awesome studio downtown Bethesda. And I kind of helped him with some of the, the work aspect. Cause I do like architectural design and stuff like that at home. Yeah. And so I told him like when you finished that studio, we're coming to the track drums there. And because he's just, he's an, his drum engineering is insane. And so we tracked drums there with him and then we engineered the rest ourselves. 6 (55m 14s): We've been buying gear for years trying to find the right vocal mic for me, the right vocal mic for Nick, you know, dozens of guitar pickups. We've been through different strings, you know? So it's like, we've been slowly build up what is us? What's our sound. And you know, we're at the point that we felt like we could do this ourselves. 4 (55m 35s): Awesome. And from what I was re like, actually going back to the ACL and I know I don't want to spend the whole interview talking about the fact that you hurt your leg when you're playing soccer. But I like from the quote I did see of yours. You talk about how that's kind of into this record, right? Like you were robbed, I saw and like you, all your stuff got jacked. Like it's a lot of big trauma. I mean, are you, is that all coming out in this album? 6 (56m 1s): Kind of, you know, like when I, when I sat down to write the record, like every record, I don't really have a theme in mind. I, a lot of guys like think of a theme and then they start a record. That's just not the way that I function. I just write songs and then, then zoom out afterward and then see yeah. Where where's my Headspace been and being on lockdown and not interacting much with the guys in my band, people on tour. Those are the things that always inspired a lot of lyrical content for me, where conversations, you know, you know, especially with, especially with people on tour, you know, cause that's why I see our listeners are in where they're struggling, where they're hurting and I can identify with those things and go, yeah, I, I get that. 6 (56m 51s): And then I write a song about that, but I didn't have that this time. And so it was yeah, much more writing from an introspective way. And I was just, I realized after zooming out that yeah, all the songs really talked about things that kind of had to die in me, you know, pride being judgmental, you know, those are like the, the two things that stick out to me. And I know it's kind of awkward to talk about being judgmental because, you know, if you say that, if somebody says you're really judgmental, that we like take a serious offense to that. But the reality is is we all are 4 (57m 31s): Judgemental in some capacity. I remember we took when I would think it wasn't, I don't know it was in high school. At some point we went to now, I can't remember the, the museum museum of tolerance is that I think it's called the museum. It's in LA. And it's like, you know, all this horrible things that have happened over the course of the years. And there's, there's two doors and it's like, have you ever it's either, have you ever judged anyone or have you ever been biased of anyone? And then like, there's a yes and no. And if you try to open up the no door, it's like lock, you can't get through it. So you have to go through the yes door. You have to say that. Yeah. But it's, it's true. 4 (58m 11s): There's nobody on this planet that can say that they haven't been judgmental of somebody before or 6 (58m 17s): Yeah. You know, and, and honestly, you know, being somebody who believes the things I believe about God and the gospel, it was just so incongruent with the way that I would find my mind going at times or the things I'd be thinking in it just like, I hate it to be honest, you know, it frustrates me to no end. And so I just saw, I saw how a lot of those things came out in the songs because, you know, you know, also being a father like, and a husband, you know, you realize pretty quickly that whatever you thought your tolerance of patients was, it's actually shorter than it was 4 (58m 58s): Way shorter. 6 (59m 0s): Yeah. And again, it's like, you know, I, you know, nobody's perfect, but you know, sometimes I would think like, man, if somebody saw how I acted in that situation, like, yeah, they wouldn't think very highly of me. And those were the, those were the things that I had to look at in the mirror, you know, where are those things? And, and unfortunately like, you know, we all have a version of ourselves that we think is real, but then there's the reality, right? That version of me had needed to die because that's not true. You know? And if I'm saying, if I'm saying I'm somebody who needs, God's grace, I shouldn't be walking around this. 6 (59m 46s): If I don't need it, you know, I shouldn't be acting or trying to put myself forward as if I don't. And I don't think that I, I don't think a lot of people would say that about me, but I think, I know I would say that about me because I know the things that go on in my head and my heart and yeah. So it was really like this idea of an internal death, a death of belief, you know, or unbelief for that matter. And so a lot of the songs kind of take that position. You know, like even the title track is about Jesus is Jesus, his own disciples and how they had a completely, you know, people think that they're like these like pillars of the faith. But if you actually read how they acted in the gospels, you see that they, they generally didn't get it right. 6 (1h 0m 34s): They thought they understood. But what was revealed to them was that they were vying for position of power. They were telling Jesus to do things differently, you know, and you know, I, I identify with them, I can see myself doing those same sorts of things. And so even the way they responded to Jesus, Jesus, his death was, they still didn't get it. And that's kind of who I was growing up. I'd heard about his death and what does that actually mean? I heard about his life and I didn't really get it. And really what my, the belief I was clinging to that had, that had to die for me to truly understand who he was. 6 (1h 1m 16s): And so that's kind of, what's at the center of the record and everything kind of flows out from there. 4 (1h 1m 21s): That's a, what a vulnerable place to write from. I mean, and get it all out there and to speak of it like that. That's, that's huge, but yeah, you're right. I mean, everyone around him was like, he had to keep showing them like, yeah. Okay. Let me, let me do one more thing to prove you that, 6 (1h 1m 38s): But that's, that's, what's so cool about that too, is, you know, that's, to me kind of at the beauty of, of the grace that I talked about in our songs is that it is so it's, it's this perfect grace it's it's patience. Like, I don't know, you know? And so yeah, so exciting for me to kind of paint those sorts of pictures and also, yeah, it's exciting for me to be able to, you know, I didn't know there was, these were these, some of these things I needed to express, you know, for myself and get out and almost go, oh, wow. That's really helpful for me. 4 (1h 2m 13s): I feel like a therapeutic state after that. It's like, oh, okay. That's that's out 6 (1h 2m 19s): There. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, this has been kind of a different experience for me. And I'm really grateful. 4 (1h 2m 26s): Amazing. Well, this song, as I've heard off the record are awesome. And I just checked out the video that you guys put out as well, which is amazing. And yeah. Are you touring the record? Do you have any plan to, or is it like, okay, I got Nick, I still got two kids. You got to do the dad 6 (1h 2m 42s): Thing. Well, I have three kids, so we have a third 4 (1h 2m 45s): Thing. Congratulations. 6 (1h 2m 47s): Good old COVID baby. Oh, there you go. Yeah. He's a, he's a little over a year and a half now. Yeah. I was glad I got to be in the hospital for his birth. Cause they were saying you might not be able to be there and I'm like 4 (1h 2m 60s): Brutal 6 (1h 3m 1s): Kind of need to be there for this one. Yeah. Yeah. We, yeah, we do have plans. We do have plans for touring, but nothing that we can announce. 4 (1h 3m 13s): Awesome. That's exciting though. And I thank you so much, Steve, for hanging out with me. I really appreciate your time. 6 (1h 3m 19s): Yeah, you too. I felt like I was just talking to me from across the country, you know, 4 (1h 3m 24s): Same here, but you've achieved way cooler things than I did. Well, I appreciate you, man. I have one more quick question. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists. 6 (1h 3m 40s): Yeah. Just create music you want to hear, you know, that's that's I think the only mantra I've had is create music that you, you want to hear be inspired by your inspiration, but don't try to impress them. You know, that was, that was the mistake I made, you know, thinking, oh, I hope if these guys in this band here that they'll like, it just like that's, that's just a recipe for disaster to, you know? Yeah. So just be honest, you know, that's the music I've connected with the most is people who are just being honest about where they're at and then also creatively honest, good art comes from that. So please do that. Whoever's listening. 6 (1h 4m 19s): Cause I would love some, some more great music flows to Beatstars (1h 4m 48s): Would you agree? Lil NAS X is one of the biggest artists on the planet with old town road. What have I told you? They bought the beat for old town road for 30 bucks on beat stars. And the song currently holds the record for the most time ever spent at number one on the billboard hot 100 chart, beat stars is the world's number one digital music marketplace to buy and sell beats. Beat stars is free to use for beginners and bringing it backwards. Listeners can also get a free one month pro subscription to open their own virtual music store with code bib that's beat stars.com/bib to get started on beat stars. Beatstars (1h 5m 30s): Beat stars also allows music creators to sell their products worldwide. Everything from beats loops and sound kits to vocals lyrics, graphic design, and more dozens of top charting songs from the past few years, or actually made on beat stars or created by beat stars, producers. Like I mentioned, a little NAS X old town road, as well as CJ's woopty Soja boys. She make it clap. And many, many more beat stars has helped pay out over $150 million in music sales to hundreds of thousands of musicians, whether you're an independent artist, singer songwriter, rapper, ANR, or label, there are millions of beats available to you on beat stars and any John rhe or style. Beatstars (1h 6m 16s): If you're interested in writing songs, but you don't play an instrument or produce beat stars is the perfect place to start. Beat stars also offers music distribution to dozens of streaming platforms for less than $20 a year for unlimited song releases. Beat stars is free to use for beginners and bringing it backwards. Listeners can also get a free one month pro subscription to open their own virtual music store with code B, I be bringing it backwards. Listeners can go to beat stars.com forward slash B I B to get started on beat stars. Huge shout out to beat stars for sponsoring this episode.